#22: Zeinah has been working in the substance abuse field since 2011, and she shared her own recovery journey on the A&E show "Intervention". The transformation that she has made from the girl in 2011 to the woman she is today is incredible. Zeinah shares her recovery journey from losing her first husband to growing up with parents from different religious backgrounds. We are so excited that Zeinah is here with us, and we hope you enjoy this episode!
#22: Zeinah has been working in the substance abuse field since 2011, and she shared her own recovery journey on the A&E show "Intervention". The transformation that she has made from the girl in 2011 to the woman she is today is incredible. Zeinah shares her recovery journey from losing her first husband to growing up with parents from different religious backgrounds. We are so excited that Zeinah is here with us, and we hope you enjoy this episode!
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Watch Zeinah's Episode of 'Intervention' on A&E:
https://www.aetv.com/shows/intervention/season-11/episode-7
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Hello, beautiful people. Welcome to the Courage to Change a recovery podcast. My name is Ashley and I am your host and today we have an amazing guest. My friend, you know her as Zeinah Estrada, Zeinah has helped many individuals who suffer from the disease of addiction through her empathetic approach. She has been working in chemical dependency since 2011. She adds unique personal insight to the process which helps others to feel comfortable as she assists with various needs. She underwent substance abuse treatment by sharing her journey on the A&E show intervention. Since undergoing treatment in 2011, Zeinah has achieved and maintained her recovery and has helped thousands of people suffering from the disease of addiction as well as their loved ones. You guys, this episode is awesome. Zeinah is awesome.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
She was also on A&E Intervention as I just said, and if you haven't seen it, look it up. The transformation she has made from that girl to the woman that she is today is next level, absolutely next level. And this story does not disappoint, from losing her first husband, the father of her oldest daughter, to dealing with the cultural differences of a Christian mother and a practicing Muslim father and growing up in multiple States and then eventually leaving Florida through a reality television show. So please, please check this story out. It's unbelievable. Zeinah's unbelievable. And we're super excited that she came into the booth to record with us. All right, episode 22 let's do this.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Welcome to the podcast booth. I'm so excited to have you here. Thanks for coming down.
Zeinah Estrada:
Thanks for having me.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Okay, so one thing that's really... How long have you been sober?
Zeinah Estrada:
I will have eight years next month in June 2019.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So one thing that's very interesting about your story is that you got sober through the television show, Intervention.
Zeinah Estrada:
I did.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I think most people watch that and have no idea that's a real...
Zeinah Estrada:
It's totally real. It's real.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So did they follow you around?
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah, they followed me around. So, before they do any of that though, they call you and set you up for a psyche eval. So I had to do a psyche eval, which I failed the first one actually.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So they did a second one?
Zeinah Estrada:
And so I had to do another one. I don't even know. I was so messed up, but, so I did the second one and it came out. But what they do is, they tell you that you're going to do a documentary, so you're going to do a documentary for the history channel or whatever. And so they send you links that you can check out. They're all documentaries and things that. And so I did it.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Did you check...
Zeinah Estrada:
I checked that, I checked it all out and it was fine and I was like, "Fine, bring me a pack of Newports and Starbucks every day. I'll do it. I'm down." So, but my husband had died of an overdose and so they were like, "To help people that have been through similar situations." And I was like, "Fine." So they came out and they filmed me for a week and my family... I was so resentful actually, when the intervention went down, there was a small part of me that wanted to get the help that I hadn't had a chance to go to a really nice treatment center or get good therapy or anything like that.
Zeinah Estrada:
But I was scared. I was scared that I was going to fail again and then it was going to be on TV and my kid was going to see me fail, because that's what I do. I was really good at running my life into the ground. But They picked out a place that was 30 minutes away from where my daughter was. She had gone from Florida out to California and I was in Florida and they told me that I was going to be in treatment 30 minutes away from her and I hadn't seen her for a year.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Right.
Zeinah Estrada:
And so ran. I ran in the beginning I was like, "I'm not going, you guys are crazy. You're using my daughter, you're holding her against me, like jerks." But it all worked out.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So were they following you with a camera while you're using?
Zeinah Estrada:
Oh totally. Right in your face.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
What is that like?
Zeinah Estrada:
I was so high that I didn't even notice them really.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
There's a camera in your face, you're shooting dope.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. And I'm just like, "Whatever, just don't take my dope and don't call the cops. We're all good." When you take as many Xanax as I was taking and opioids, your eyes aren't open most of the time anyways. So if I was doing meth or cocaine, I would probably be freaking out. But because of what my drug of choice was, I was super relaxed. I mean a lot of people take them for job interviews or whatever to calm their anxiety. Well, I was taking probably 10 times what those people take. And somehow I was in dead, but I was relaxed. Oh my gosh. But they...
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Did they come with you to pick up.
Zeinah Estrada:
Well, no.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
We're going to just put this out there, but...
Zeinah Estrada:
I would go to like eight doctors a month. And, and so they...
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Doctor shopping?
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. So they did the intervention based on when I was going to the doctor. So I would go and come back and they didn't film me going there or coming back. But they knew, they came the day before when I was sick so they could fill me being sick and then the next day I would be better and go to the doctor, come back and then... Because they're like, "We want to shoot you while you're in your active addiction." And I'm like, "Okay."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And you're just like, "Yeah. Cool." How did they find you?
Zeinah Estrada:
I honestly think that it was my mom. Because I kind of remember her doing a video of me and she was like, "I just want you to tell people... I have a friend." I don't even remember the whole gist of it. But she did a video of me, because she has a... I don't know. She's like, "I'm going to send it to my friend." Because my mom was a minister too. So she had all these... She's like, "I'm going to have them pray for you." And I'm like, "Okay." So I did this video, telling them about my husband dying and losing my kid and all of these things. And I think that's...
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
She's admitted it?
Zeinah Estrada:
Honestly, I think that's how it happened. But I don't know, because they don't tell you. And I was so angry and my mom passed away and so I didn't have a chance to ask her all of these things. So it's not something you really think about.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Does it ever come up? Other than if you've told people, are people like, "Hey, I saw you on..."
Zeinah Estrada:
So my favorite one is when people come to me and they'll say... And I don't know how these people even find that Episode of Intervention.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
People are obsessed with Intervention.
Zeinah Estrada:
So, for example, I went to the emergency room a little while ago, and the lady behind the desk, she says-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
How long ago?
Zeinah Estrada:
This was a month ago. Because it's on Hulu right now. And so-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh, you famous girl.
Zeinah Estrada:
Oh my God.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh my God.
Zeinah Estrada:
So it's ridiculous. They'll look at me and they'll go, "You look so familiar." And I'm like, "Yeah, I hear that a lot." I don't want them to know that I...
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. Totally, you're at that ER, you're not trying to... Like, "Yeah, I was the junkie on Intervention." Yeah, I get that.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. But yeah, that's what I get a lot. There'll be like, "You look really familiar." And then I just don't say anything. When I first got sober I would be like, "Yeah, I went Intervention, yeh yeh." But now I have kids that are in schools and I don't want all of these parents to be like, "Ah, my kid's not coming to our house." Do you know what I mean?
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Has anyone been like, "Are you on Intervention?"
Zeinah Estrada:
That's what will happen. So they'll say, "You look familiar." And then five minutes later there'll be like, "Were you on TV?" And I'm like, "I was on Intervention." They're like, "Oh my gosh, we knew." But they're always super supportive and I get tons of Facebook Messenger messages where they'll be like, "I know that this is super weird and awkward, but I saw you on Intervention and I just wanted to say we're happy that you're doing so well." So I respond to all of them.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
That's awesome.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah, it's cool. Those are the good ones. Googling my name is weird, I try not to do that. Because there's people that are rude, there's one that says... And I stopped reading them after a while, but there was one that was like, "Oh, she got so fat." And someone was defending me though. And the next comment, they're like, "Yeah, but she's sober and she's alive."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Is this the YouTube comments?
Zeinah Estrada:
I don't know. Honestly, I don't remember.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. That's where, people always talk about YouTube comments being the filth of humanity.
Zeinah Estrada:
It's just awful. People are so mean, but it doesn't matter.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. Tough guy behind, but keep walking.
Zeinah Estrada:
I just don't read them. That's the easier way to do it.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So you referenced a couple of different things, including one was that you lived in Georgia and then you moved to Florida and then to California. So how old were you when you lived... How long did you live in Georgia?
Zeinah Estrada:
So I was born in Georgia and I lived there for, I want to say 11 years, 11 or 12 years. And then my parents started going through a divorce. I didn't even know that they were going to get a divorce. We just went to go live in Florida because that's where my grandparents lived. And we went to visit one Summer and then we just never left. I switched schools, everything. And my dad came and we were still living together. And then my parents got into this big fight and then we weren't living together anymore.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
They didn't explain it to you?
Zeinah Estrada:
Well, no, they were always fighting though.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh, so it wasn't anything...
Zeinah Estrada:
They were pretty much always fighting.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So what's interesting about your parents is they come from incredibly different cultures. Can you speak to that?
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. So my dad is Syrian with some Turkish mixed in there. And then my mom is white girl, a little country white girl. So she was born in Texas, raised in Alabama.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh yeah.
Zeinah Estrada:
And then actually when you moved to Georgia where my dad met her, because he came over to go to college.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And he was practicing Muslim.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah, he was practicing Islam. And she was Christian, Christian, Christian, Christian. And then she actually converted over to Islam for a little while.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh. And then went back?
Zeinah Estrada:
Now that I'm thinking maybe that's why they got divorced, because she went back. So she went back to being Christian.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh, she converted and then she...
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. So she converted and then she went back and then she started a whole ministry, ministering.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
She didn't just go back, she went back with a bang.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. So she started ministering to women that would marry Muslim men and then trying to help them, it was a lot. So, she did that.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Did you guys talk about that much? Because in my house, my mom is Episcopalian and we were baptized Episcopalian and my dad, his whole family's Jewish, New York Jews and very different cultures.
Zeinah Estrada:
It's really different.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
But we talked about it a lot. We were as a joke, we called ourselves hybrid's.
Zeinah Estrada:
Well, it wasn't funny at my house.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Right, okay.
Zeinah Estrada:
It was not something to joke about. My mom was always like, "Your dad's going to go to hell." And my dad's like, "Your mom's going to go to hell."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh, yeah. So, not funny.
Zeinah Estrada:
It was like, "Whatever I believe I'm going to hell." So, that's...
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And did you think you were going to hell? Or were you like you all are [Alito 00:12:25] .
Zeinah Estrada:
Well, no, I just started making my own beliefs, I could say. I was more like, "If you're a good person and whoever you worship, Jesus, God, whatever." I was like, "There's a heaven for all of you." In my mind that's the only way that I could comprehend it. But then, I went to an Arabic school where I was in an Arabic school for...
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Wow, do you speak Arabic?
Zeinah Estrada:
Well, not anymore, but when I was little...
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Ah, how cool.
Zeinah Estrada:
When I was little I did.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I want to see video of you speaking Arabic.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah, I'm sure there is one. Well, we'll find it.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
We'll find it. Not on Hulu.
Zeinah Estrada:
No, not on Hulu. But yeah. So I started going to this Arabic school for a little while and then when we... That was in Georgia and then we moved to Florida and I was going to just regular old American public school, but here's the thing, I always wanted to be Christian because everyone was Christian.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Right.
Zeinah Estrada:
No one was Muslim. My dad made me, well not made me, but I would cover my hair and stuff that until I got into the public schools.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Full?
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah, the hijab, I would wear that.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Praying five times a day? Wow.
Zeinah Estrada:
The full thing. Yeah, the whole shebang. But I always wanted to go to church because everyone went to church.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, you just want to fit in.
Zeinah Estrada:
And I was never allowed to go to church. Yeah. And so I started sneaking off and riding my bike to church and then my dad... I bought a little cross necklace and my dad came home and it was a slap in the face.
Zeinah Estrada:
Do you know what I mean? It was really disrespectful, super disrespectful. I didn't think of it that back then. But looking back on it now, I was raised one way and then my mom was like, "No, we're going to go to church." And so we started to sneaking into church and then they got a divorce and then I went super Christian, so I was...
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
On your own or with...
Zeinah Estrada:
On my own.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Wow.
Zeinah Estrada:
So I'm the one that started going to church first and then my mom started going back and then she got saved again. And then my dad was like, "Thanks for slapping me in the face guys." Do you know what I mean?
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah.
Zeinah Estrada:
Because he's off in Georgia trying to get a business established and move to Florida. And all these things. So that was super... That was rough, rough patch there.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Sounds very confusing.
Zeinah Estrada:
It was really confusing. So then now my parents are fighting over us, so there's custody battles going on and so I'm having to go to testify against my dad and then I have to go testify against my mom.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
No.
Zeinah Estrada:
In court. Because it's hard to pick between your parents, so it's just like, "Okay, I'll listen to what you say and then I'll listen to what you say." And so they were just...
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Are you an only child?
Zeinah Estrada:
No, there's actually four of... My mom has four with my dad, but then there's seven of us total. So my mom has three older ones from a different marriage. From when she was living in Alabama.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Okay. So, and then you have three siblings?
Zeinah Estrada:
Five. Well, there's six of us technically. But growing up-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
You have three siblings with your dad?
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Okay. What's your birth order?
Zeinah Estrada:
So I was first born. My mom didn't think that she could get pregnant. And she met my dad in a bar in Atlanta and they were celebrating her divorce and she met my dad. And then somehow she got pregnant and then she ended up marrying my dad. Pretty sure she was pregnant first. And then I was born and then she got pregnant again with my little brother and then she got... That was three years later and then she got pregnant again with twins, boy and a girl.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh, you have twin siblings?
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah, twin siblings.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So you've seen it up close?
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah, I know that madness. But it's cool. But me and my little brother started fighting on, because in the Arab culture men are better than women. And so I was kind of pushed. So I was like, "Daddy's girl, daddy's girl, daddy's girl." And then firstborn son. And so I kind of started to compete with my brother on everything. Everything that he did, I had to do a hundred times better. I would do sports, I would do those better, but he would still get praise for doing something not as great, but he's very artsy and good with music and all that stuff. But I missed that, somehow that chain didn't hit me. I was good at weight lifting, cheerleading, strong things, which isn't lady like, you know what I mean? And so I was never this prissy little girl.
Zeinah Estrada:
Anyways, so my brother was more, he would try to play football and he would break his foot. He broke his leg three times, every time he tried to play football.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh my gosh.
Zeinah Estrada:
And I'm like, "Give it up bro."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Time to put the football down.
Zeinah Estrada:
Like, "That's not going to work. Stick to the guitar buddy." But I don't know, I got sidetracked. But we're in Florida and so my parents are separated or divorced and now my mom's not letting us go to my dad's house. And so my dad starts fighting for us and looking at it now, he fought so hard and we were just like, "No, we're not coming there." I would have the cops, they would drag me into my dad's house. I'd be like, "I don't want to go." Kicking and screaming and he literally just wanted to spend time with his kids. Looking back at it now, kind of that's pretty awful.
Zeinah Estrada:
Anyways, my mom ended up marrying another guy who she met online in a Christian dating room and I was raised on a little Island in Florida, so it's called Anna Maria Island. It's this little tiny Island. And we moved off the Island into town and so I started going to a different school when I was 14 or high school or something. And man, I went from a really preppy school where the cheerleaders are number one, I was cheerleading captain and all of these things and went to this other school and I was just bullied. People would throw gum in my hair, so rude.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
What were you being bullied for?
Zeinah Estrada:
Because they came from the other school. They were the rivals, right? All the guys were really nice to me, but the girls were horrible, absolutely horrible. I would just come home bawling, crying. And the school I was at before, I wasn't popular or anything, but I wasn't getting gum thrown in my hair or spit on.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, you're hurt.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah, it was awful. So I started going to the school, so then I was like, "Okay, I'll just be friends with whoever." And someone was trying to skip school. And I was like, "Oh, I've never done that before." And so I did that. I ended up skipping school. I ended up smoking weed for the first time. I ended up having sex for the first time and all of these things. And then I was cool. But because I entered the school late in the year, they put me... I loved doing TV production stuff. And so they put me in this Senior TV production class. So I was friends with all the Seniors, but I was a Freshman.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Right.
Zeinah Estrada:
And so I started going to all the Senior parties and hanging out with all of them, which wasn't that... I mean it was super fun. But that made everyone hate me even more. Because these girls are like, "Oh, you get to hang out with these guys." But I was... I'm I allowed to say slut?
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
You could say.
Zeinah Estrada:
I was a big slut in high school. And it was awful for... Well, it was fun then. But looking back now I'm like, "Oh God, that was horrible." And so then I met-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
You'd think that girls would see the opportunity by befriending you and then getting themselves girl parties, not that it's strategic.
Zeinah Estrada:
The girls from my old school?
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah,
Zeinah Estrada:
That's what they did.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. See that's strategic, hello.
Zeinah Estrada:
But I was still... I ended up getting kicked out of the school anyways, so it doesn't really matter. I got expelled from four different schools actually in high school and I ended up just getting my GED. But I met a drug dealer.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So in part of this, you were really into gymnastics?
Zeinah Estrada:
Oh yeah. So I was a gymnast from, I was three. So from three up until... Gosh I want to say up until I was, I must've been 12. So the coach though was a horrible person, one of the coaches and it was this big thing in the city that I was from and he actually molested a bunch of girls and I happened to be one of those girls. And so after that I was like, "Nope, don't want to do gymnastics anymore."
Zeinah Estrada:
And because gymnast hate cheerleading so much and coaches don't want gymnast to be cheerleaders. Well they didn't back then. And so I was like, "Okay, I'm going to do cheer."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh that's interesting. I didn't know that.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. So I started doing cheer and my dad... Cheerleading is also bad in his culture. So I would have to sneak to cheerleading practice.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And you were captain of the-
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah, so in high school, in my mind I was like, "I'm going to try out for Manatee." Which is the preppy air school. I was like, "I'm going to try out for that. If I don't get into that..." Because I was a gifted student also. So there was another high school which is Southeast, which is a rival of Manatee. I was like, "If I don't become cheerleader, I'm going to go to the IB program at Southeastern and cheer there." Which is this really super smart program, whatever.
Zeinah Estrada:
But I had gone into cheer at Manatee and then, actually the real story is I was co-captain and the captain got into a fight with someone and got kicked off. And so then I became captain. And so that was crazy. But the fact that I even got elected to be co-captain, I was stoked. Do you know what I mean?
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah.
Zeinah Estrada:
I think because the girls that did it, they were not nice to me in middle school either.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. Okay, so you became captain, you're sneaking to-
Zeinah Estrada:
Right. So I was sneaking to cheer practice when I was in middle school, but then once in high school and I made cheerleader, I was so happy. There were probably 300 people that tried it out. So I was like, "This is a really good thing."
Zeinah Estrada:
So my dad's like, "I don't want you to cheer lead." And I'm like, "Well I'm going to cheer anyways." But he didn't get it, his culture is different.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So you're 50% first generation?
Zeinah Estrada:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So you have to deal with all... Because I have friends are first generation. Would you say Muslim?
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah, I think so.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
First generation Muslim, I have friends who are first generation Muslim and it's very interesting. They're Americanized children is a very, very difficult, particularly the fathers with their daughters is a very difficult thing for them to watch. They come here for the opportunity but then they don't love what that looks like.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. Because they want you to wear long pants, long sleeves, cover your hair. I mean the hair covering is really optional. It's not supposed to be, but in the years it's become more relaxed. But cheerleading uniform is not really... But neither is gymnastics leotards. So I don't know why gymnastics was accepted, but then cheerleading wasn't, so it was a battle for that. And then I got into weightlifting and loved weightlifting. Did it really good with that. So I was doing cheer and weight lifting. But then I switched schools and so I switched schools and they put me on their cheer team.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
No questions asked.
Zeinah Estrada:
No questions asked. I didn't even have to try out really. They were just like, "Okay, come on over." And then I went back. So then I went back to my old high school because I started getting into so much trouble. Then I got kicked off of cheer because my grades started dropping because I was skipping so much school because I had now gotten into that habit from being at the other school and I met this... I don't even know how I met him.
Zeinah Estrada:
But I did. At one of those parties, I met this drug dealer guy, and because of all the fighting at home, I never wanted to be home. And so I was always like... Well, not even the fighting at home, but my mom pulling me one way and then my dad pulling me the other way and like, "Give this message to your dad." Or "Give this message to your mom." [crosstalk 00:25:26] And they, and I promised myself if anything ever happens to me and my husband, I will not put the kids in the middle of it. I don't care if it turns out that I hate him with all my guts. I will not hold the kids. Because all that does is mess with them. And so it's... I mean it's kind of good because I learned that, but it was rough.
Zeinah Estrada:
So I start hanging out with this guy all the time and he's 6'7', 330 pounds-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh my gosh.
Zeinah Estrada:
...Giant. No one's going to tell him no. But I also lied about my age, so I was 15. I told him I was 18, I told everyone I was 18, everyone thought I was 18. Everyone thought I was a Senior and everyone thought I was 18. So he would come pick me up from school and I would go hang out with him. And then it came out that I was younger but we had been dating for a while and we were in love or whatever.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
6'7'?
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah, 6'7' he was a giant.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And you're not that tall, how tall are you?
Zeinah Estrada:
No, I'm 5'3'.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, that's a big difference.
Zeinah Estrada:
It was a huge difference. But he was my protector.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, you felt safe.
Zeinah Estrada:
He was my safety. Even though he sold drugs and that life is super crazy, there was some crazy stuff that happened, but he would never let anything happen to me and he would never yell at me. He never hit me, never did any of that. He was just this big gentle giant, and so I moved in with him. Because I got kicked out of that school and then I got... So I overdosed on Xanax and I passed out on one of my classes and they couldn't wake me up and I scared them. And so I got expelled from that school. Then I got sent to an all girls school and I somehow managed to skip from that school. And so they expelled me from that school. Then I was going to this community high school and at that point my parents were like, "They're going to go to jail. Because they can't keep me in school. And then truancy and all that stuff."
Zeinah Estrada:
So I was like, "I'm just going to get myself emancipated." So I went, I got myself emancipated, moved in with my... We ended up getting married, but I moved in with my boyfriend. His name's Kevin and his mom didn't even know I lived there for probably six months. I would literally sneak into his window and just crazy to think about it now. But then she found out and everything was fine, but we ended up getting married and my mom was...
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
How old were you when you got married?
Zeinah Estrada:
I was 18, so he was 24 and the day before my wedding my mom brought everything that we had gotten together for the wedding and she goes, "I can't go to your wedding. I don't approve of the marriage." And I'm like "What?" She ended up going but still it was kind of a jerk thing to do.
Zeinah Estrada:
So we got married and things were good, we were using a little bit, but it wasn't crazy. It ended up going there. But in the beginning, it wasn't that bad. I mean that bad for me, was smoking some pot and taking a Laura tab here and there, maybe some cocaine on the weekends. I got pregnant two days after we got married. So we had done ecstasy and I thought that I was sick from the ecstasy.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I heard this. Yeah.
Zeinah Estrada:
So two days later I'm still puking and I'm like, "What is going on?" I take a pregnancy test and I'm pregnant. So I got married. Literally they got pregnant two days later on my honeymoon when I did the calculation and whatever, I'm going to have a baby. So he was still using the whole time though and so I would get so mad.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
What was he using?
Zeinah Estrada:
He smoked a lot of weed. It was a lot of weed and then cocaine and then ecstasy, he would do a lot of ecstasy. So I would just get so annoyed and trying not to do drugs, but I just burped, starting over. When I was pregnant, I started smoking pot. I could not stop being sick. I was so sick and I was throwing up all the time, honestly, I started smoking pot in the morning. So I would take a hit of pot and then I would be able to eat. And then I did a couple of Laura tabs here and there when I was pregnant, but nothing else really. And then I had the baby, she was healthy, everything was fine. And then I had a baby and I was 19 and I had a baby and I had a husband and that's a lot when you're 19.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, that's a lot.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. So then we moved, he got into some stuff that I don't really want to repeat on here, but he was a drug dealer and so he did something and we had to move to a different city.
Zeinah Estrada:
My dad had a mattress company and so we went from... While we were in Bradenton and we moved to Fort Myers, which is two hours away. So we moved two hours away, started over over there. There was a guy that worked for us and he introduced me to oxies, Oxycodone. Never in my life have I been so hooked on anything so quickly. Well, because of the weight lifting and the cheerleading and everything, I had back injuries already. So then someone was like, "Oh, you can just go to the doctor and get your own prescription." And I was like, "Oh, okay."
Zeinah Estrada:
So I go get an MRI, I get all this stuff. They're like, "Yep, you have three bulging here, here and here and you have all these things." And so I started getting tons of oxies. I would get Oxies, I would get roxies, I would get methadone. Why they give you methadone? I don't even know. They would give me Xanax, everything. Because I had anxiety. Don't you know, I knew I had just started going downhill. I ended up cheating on my husband, moving out, got into an abusive relationship. With this guy that I cheated on him with, was just like, "Keep the kid, bye. See you later." Both of my husband's parents were living with us and so I was just like, "Forget it. this isn't even my house anymore. We moved them in with us." So I left and literally abandon everyone. But the relationship got really toxic really quickly. The guy that I left my husband for.
Zeinah Estrada:
So Kevin one day came to the house and he was like, "You're leaving, I'm getting you out of here." And he literally picked me up and took me out of that house. And then we moved back to Bradenton. By then I started hating myself, because I'm like "I cheated on my husband, I abandoned my kid." And so I started just doing so many pills.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And you're addicted to opioids at that point.
Zeinah Estrada:
I'm addicted to opioids and now I'm addicted to Xanax. Every time I would stop taking the Xanax I would have a seizure. So I was in and out of the hospital for having these seizures. And then I started doing Coke because I was always so down from the Xanax and I need something to lift me up and my daughter was three. I was a horrible parent. I will be the first to admit that. Looking back now I can say that because I'm not anymore. But I would put cereal in a bowl for her and then I would put milk next to it in a cup and I would put it in the fridge so that when she woke up and she would say, "Mommy, I'm hungry." I could say go to the fridge and get it yourself. I mean at least I left food out. Right. That's something that's positive I guess.
Zeinah Estrada:
But yeah, I would just be so sick. I couldn't get up, I couldn't do anything. So I started going to another doctor and then another doctor and then another doctor and before you know it, I'm going to eight different doctors and then I would have these seizures. So one day I passed out or I had a seizure. I honestly, I can't remember. She went to get help, she was three. She went across the street to get help. The ambulance came, the helicopter came.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
She at three years old, open the door and went across the...
Zeinah Estrada:
Opened the door, ran across the street said, "My mommy needs help." My husband had gone to the store for something. I was flopping around like a fish out in the front yard. The helicopter came, took me, they had to chemically induced me into a coma because I...
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
A withdrawal...
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. So it was from not having Xanax. Actually I think he went to go get Xanax is where he went. So my daughter was a hero.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Do they think you would have died had she not gotten help?
Zeinah Estrada:
Well, who knows? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. But after that I was slow, my brain was slowed down. I was slurring my speech all the time. I was still taking drugs though. So who knows? Who knows what the real reason was? But so she went to go stay... So she was in the paper as little hero, whatever. Then I come home a week later she comes back home and it happens again. So now she is not a hero. You are a piece of crap. I was a piece of crap.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
She went across the street again?
Zeinah Estrada:
I don't remember. I don't honestly even know how it happened. Maybe she went across the street. I think we were across from a school, so I think she was crying and the person from the school came over. I don't even know exactly what happened, but yeah.
Zeinah Estrada:
So I went to jail that time and I went to jail, he went to jail, my husband went to jail. He was also passed out in the front and remind you that all of these were prescribed to us. These were legit prescriptions from a doctor. So in my mind I'm like, "I'm just taking my pills as prescribed."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
What did you go to jail of, endangering?
Zeinah Estrada:
Child neglect.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Child neglect. Yeah.
Zeinah Estrada:
Felony, child neglect charge. So my husband also went to jail, but he had previous charges and so he had to stay. I got out on bond after a weekend and went back to Georgia. And so my family tried to detox me.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Who had your daughter?
Zeinah Estrada:
My mom did for a little while, but she could not handle having my kid and me being such a wreck. And she had already raised seven kids and the twins were still at home in high school and so she's like, "I can't do it." So Kevin's mom took my oldest. So she went to live with grandma and I was in Georgia and I wanted Kevin to get out of jail. It was six months, that he was in jail. And so we went back to Florida.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Who's we?
Zeinah Estrada:
Me. Well I went back to Florida, got Kevin out of jail, got a lawyer, got him out of jail. Me and Kevin and his mom and dad took my oldest to Disney and I was still using. And so he had been sober forever long and I was bringing pills around him. Of course he's going to start doing them again. They get into a fight, him and his dad get into a fight when we get back to their house. So he's like, "F you, F you, whatever."
Zeinah Estrada:
We leave, we go to my friend's house... I go to the doctor first because I have to have my pills right? So I go to the doctor first, they can't fill all of our prescriptions, they can only feel the methadone and the Xanax, which is a deadly combination. So I don't take any of the methadone. I never had a thing for methadone.
Zeinah Estrada:
So he started taking the methadone on the drive there. I'm like, "Why are you even taking that stuff?" And so we get to my friend's house because no one will let us at their house because we are... So nobody wants us at their houses. My parents don't want us. I don't even know how I still had a car at that point.
Zeinah Estrada:
But we get to her house, he goes in the bathroom, locks the door and I didn't realize that he had taken some of my pills. He had taken the Xanax. So he's in there with the water on, crushing up Xanax to snort it and I hear the water running and then I hear him hit the ground, a hard thump and he is 6'7', 330 pounds. And back then I was maybe 130 pounds.
Zeinah Estrada:
So I hear him hit the ground and I'm like, "Are you okay?" And he's like, "I can't feel my legs." And I'm like, "What? Well I'm going to call the ambulance." He's like, "Don't call anyone because I don't want to go back to jail and I don't want another CPS case opened up." So I'm like, "Fine, I won't do whatever. Just open the door." So I pull him out. He's like, "Will you pull me outside?" He's soaking wet from the water, I don't know why the water was overflowing in the sink, but it was. He was running it and he couldn't turn it off and it was probably clogged drain or something.
Zeinah Estrada:
So I pull him out and he wants to go outside and smoke a cigarette. I'm like, "Fine." So I changed his clothes for him because it was one of the coldest nights in Florida. I don't know why it was so cold. And so I put him out there. He was like, "I love you." I'm like, "I love you." He started...
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Wait, you put him outside?
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. He wanted to smoke a cigarette outside.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh.
Zeinah Estrada:
I think honestly he knew he was dying and he was scared and didn't want me to see it or something. So he was like, "Take me outside." Because I think he was freaking out, in his mind but wouldn't tell me that. But he couldn't move his legs so I had to drag him outside. So I was like, "Okay." So he's outside and he falls asleep, which was completely normal for our relationship because we were nodding off pretty much all the time.
Zeinah Estrada:
So he's nodding out. I bring him back inside. I lay him on the floor right in front of me, prop his head up on a pillow on tilt to the side, so he doesn't aspirate or fixated or whatever and I fall asleep. He's snoring so he's snoring. I'm like, "Okay, he's sleeping, he's fine, everything's fine. I'm going to go to sleep. I'll wake up tomorrow. Everything will be fine."
Zeinah Estrada:
I wake up three hours later and he is gray. I don't even know what color that is, gray is the best description that I can give. And I start pounding on his chest and there's just fluid coming out of his mouth. I know to clear the airway, make sure that's clear so that I can give CPR all of those things. I knew how to do all of that, but I couldn't clear the airway. There was so much fluid.
Zeinah Estrada:
So I called the ambulance and I'm like, "I think that my husband's dying." They're like, "No honey, he's already dead."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And how would they know that?
Zeinah Estrada:
Because of what I was explaining to them, the fluid coming out and that he was... I don't even remember the color. There was no blood flow. They were like, "Based on..." And there's a lot of overdoses where I'm from. So it's something that they're used to. And so they came and they shocked him and he was dead. And that was devastating, because he was my best friend from 15, I was maybe 22 or 23 at that time.
Zeinah Estrada:
So I just lost it. I didn't care about anything. "Now, my husband's dead, I don't have custody of my kid. No one will let me live with them." I don't even know what I did at that point. I just ran. I was just staying with whoever I could stay with doing whatever I could do. I'm going to the doctors just not wanting to live. I started cutting really bad and then I did something so dumb. I got married again, three months after my husband died.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh. Oh.
Zeinah Estrada:
Because that's going to fix everything. This is how crazy I was. So I thought that if I got married and had a husband and had a place to live, that they would see that I had my shit together and would give me back custody of my kid.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So who had Kate... So Katie was still with her grandparents?
Zeinah Estrada:
She was with her grandparents. She was with her grandma. So I'm married to this dude.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. Who's the dude?
Zeinah Estrada:
Okay, so I used to date... This is a little confusing, so if this doesn't make sense, just whatever. So I was dating this guy named Chris when I was in high school. I just remembered where I met him. So Chris introduced me to Kevin, who I married. Chris had a little brother. I ended up marrying Chris's little brother.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Like courthouse wedding?
Zeinah Estrada:
So crazy. Yeah, like courthouse wedding.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Did he propose and you were like-
Zeinah Estrada:
I don't even remember. I was so messed up, I don't even remember how that went, why would that sound a good idea, your husband just died three months ago. You are out of your mind.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Well that's what it would sound like. [crosstalk 00:42:31].
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. So, Oh my gosh. I married this guy. He thinks that he's doing me a favor, even though he was using with me that he needs to call me a CPS caseworker and say "She needs to go to treatment."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh boy.
Zeinah Estrada:
So he gets me into a state funded crap treatment center in Bradenton and I get in there, I start crying because I haven't been sober since he's died. I haven't cried, I haven't processed, I haven't done any of that stuff.
Zeinah Estrada:
I get to the treatment center. They put me in the psych ward say that I'm bipolar. Say that I'm, all these things don't properly diagnose me, put me on these meds when I get over to the substance abuse treatment side because it's all in one building. I start crying, right? I'm on the phone with someone and I start crying. And they're like, "One more outbursts like that, we're going to send you back to the psych ward." And I'm like, "Okay." Looking back at it now, I'm like, "If any of my clients did that." I'd be like, "Okay good. You're crying. Let's process the trauma." But they were like, "You can't act that here. If you need to go back to psych, we'll send you back to psych." So what do I do while I'm in treatment? I do what any other good addict does. I meet a guy. So I meet another guy in there.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, please tell me you didn't marry him.
Zeinah Estrada:
No, no. That's the guy that's on Intervention though.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. So I go through treatment. They told me if I had 30 days I could petition to get my kid back. I get kicked out at 28 days. I wasn't doing any work, but they told me that I was a lost cause and I was never going to amount to anything.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. When people do that, I just am like, "Really."
Zeinah Estrada:
I should just give up. So that wasn't helpful. So I left. I was going to be in a relationship with this guy and I'm still married to the other guy and my husband had just died five months ago at this point. So this guy...
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Did you divorce Chris's little brother?
Zeinah Estrada:
Not yet.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Okay.
Zeinah Estrada:
So I'm still married and I'm now living with this other guy that I'm taking in now from treatment. Because I have my place, he doesn't have a place and he's running from the cops and all of this crap. So he teaches me how to shoot up. So I'm like, "Oh." Well first I was like, "Oh, I'll never do that. That's disgusting and it's dirty. I don't do that. I only take what's prescribed by the doctor." So I started shooting up, I never had a quicker downward spiral in my life.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yep. Same.
Zeinah Estrada:
Literally six months. And within that six months, my mom did the video for Intervention. Intervention came out. While I started shooting up, lost everything. No car now, no job, no house, no kids, no husband, no other husband. Got a new boyfriend from rehab though. And he was telling me like, "Don't do it. Don't do whatever they're filming. Don't do it. Don't do it. They're going to take you away from me. It's probably something like Intervention. They're going to take you." I was like, "What if it is? What if it is? What if it is and I get to go to a good rehab."
Speaker 3:
Hi, I'm Peter Loeb, CEO and co founder of Lionrock Recovery. We're proud to sponsor The Courage to Change and I hope you find that it's an inspiration. I was inspired to start Lionrock, after my sister lost her own struggle with drugs and alcohol back in 2010. Because we provide care online by live video, Lionrock clients can get help from the privacy of home. We offer flexible schedules that fit our client's busy lives and of course we're licensed and accredited and we accept most private health insurance. You can find out more about us @lionrockrecovery.com or call us for a free consultation. No commitment at (800) 258-6550 thank you.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So you knew you needed help and you wanted help?
Zeinah Estrada:
I wanted help but I was so scared. Because I went to that last place and they were like, "Don't have an outburst like that." And I had gone to Salvation Army or whatever, which is a great place. But I had some severe childhood trauma and so I needed to work on those core issues before I could fix myself. I couldn't just be raw and sober. I needed to treat the molestations and then the abuse and all of those things, those formed me into this person. That's the reason why I was using and then my kid being taken away and my husband dying in my arms and me not calling the ambulance and all of those things and me being a cheater and then I hated myself.
Zeinah Estrada:
And so I could not stay sober without proper help and treatment's too expensive. Who can afford $60,000 a month? Who can afford $30,000 when you're a low bottom gutter addict, with no insurance. And my parents weren't going to pay for treatment. Why would they be for treatment when I've gotten kicked out of five treatment centers already? Why would they take that chance? $30,000 is a lot.
Zeinah Estrada:
So Intervention came, I ended up saying, "Yes, I'll go to treatment." I went up by the sea into San Juan Capistrano and I tried to get kicked out. I was absolutely crazy. I was probably one of the most difficult clients that they've ever had. I still, when I go there, they still tell stories about how horrible I was. I would go to group and I would not agree with something that someone was talking about and I would walk out or I would try to fight somebody, but I wouldn't ever put my hands on them.
Zeinah Estrada:
So it wasn't an actual... They wouldn't kick me out for that. Also I think being on Intervention, they do a 90 day followup. They kind of had to be a little bit more relaxed with me than with other clients. But man, I would want to leave every day. Every day I was like, "I don't want to be here. I don't want to be here." And then they would talk me back into staying. And there were two ladies there that really, really helped me and then I got into a therapist and he's the craziest therapy I've ever done. writing letters and burning things and all this weird...
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Did you guys do Psychodrama?
Zeinah Estrada:
We did Psychodrama.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Which is thrilling.
Zeinah Estrada:
We did family-sculpting, all of these things. And I had those outbursts again, I cried. When I started crying there... Because I went in there hardcore, Not going to do anything. Like "Don't talk to me. I hate you." Because I was pissed.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And you hated yourself.
Zeinah Estrada:
Well I hated myself and I felt like I had been manipulated and taken... They didn't tell me that I was doing an Intervention, like, "Just tell me. You don't have to lie to me for months or whatever." Because it was a month long process. Maybe even two or three months before I got on to the taping part. So I was just angry.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
You were angry but you said yes.
Zeinah Estrada:
I was angry but I said yes. I wanted to help but I was scared, right?
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah.
Zeinah Estrada:
But I was fighting it. Because I don't want you to see me cry, because I don't want them to think I'm weak.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Or you probably didn't want to start crying because you didn't know if it would stop.
Zeinah Estrada:
I cried for three days straight. So after my Psychodrama... Because I wasn't going to do anything. I was like, "No, screw you, screw that."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Just to clarify, Psychodrama is where you role play your trauma in a way that's safe and in a safe environment and with someone who's trained to do it. And it sounded to me... I don't know how it sounded to you, but when they told me what we were going to do, I was like, "You have got to be kidding me."
Zeinah Estrada:
So for me I was so fragile. I was so fragile and they were a little worried that I was going to start fighting people or whatever. So we didn't go into my actual trauma then. This was just like, "Let's break her ice, let's get her working.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Loose her ice.
Zeinah Estrada:
So they played my addiction.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh, wow.
Zeinah Estrada:
So I was sitting in the middle the... Everyone in your group is sitting around you in a circle. And this woman, Oh my gosh, she's like my angel. But she was this big African American woman and got right up in my face and she's like... Well, I don't think I should say this on here, but she's like, "I know what you've done for me, I know the people that you've slept with for me." It was a way more graphic than that, but right in my face. And I just started crying, bawling, crying. And I ran out of the room. I literally cried for three days straight.
Zeinah Estrada:
So they put me on an antidepressant, that didn't work. They put me on another antidepressant. I was on two antidepressants plus all the other whatever, stabilization meds. And finally I stopped crying and then I could start to do therapy. And then I wasn't such a jerk to everyone. I was still over... I would talk the whole group though and think that my stuff was way more important than them. "Don't you know who I am and who I think I am."
Zeinah Estrada:
But then I started going to meetings. I got a sponsor, they did not let me go. I tried to get kicked out and they would not kick me out. And so then I just started doing the thing. I started doing my step work. There was a guy... Oh, so that guy that taught me how to shoot up actually followed me out to California, was homeless in California, waiting for me to get out of treatment, came to visit me. I had a crush on someone at the treatment center. He was a client, but then he started working there and he was like, "I will never be involved with you. You are batshit crazy. I will never ever, ever be in a relationship with you." And I would be like, "I'll wait." And I remind you, I still have the husband. And the crazy boyfriend that followed me.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, that was great fun.
Zeinah Estrada:
And now I'm searching for my new soulmate.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Next.
Zeinah Estrada:
Right?
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah.
Zeinah Estrada:
So the guy comes to visit me in treatment. He has a dirty urine. He brought fake pee with him. My husband now Aaron, Aaron is the one who drug tests him and he's like, "I think you're..."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Wait, so the guy who works there. Who's name is Aaron. He drug tests the homeless dude.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yes. He drug tests my homeless boyfriend. And he's like, "Dude, you have fake pee. I know it. Let me go in there with you and watch you pee." And so when he pees again... Because the temperature was off. And so he pees again and he fails and he gets so mad. He storms out, spits on the window of Hope By the Sea. I'm mortified. But that day they were like, "Are you going to leave with him?" And I was like, "No." I was like, "I'm not going to go to... No way. I'm going to stay here. Don't worry." And so that was the day that I got really serious about treatment. And so I started doing... I was in NA. I did NA, I started with NA and I started doing my steps and it's just-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So let's break that down for a second. Well, a lot of people talk about program and AA, NA and all the different anonymous programs. So you and I are both drug addicts, right?
Zeinah Estrada:
Right.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
But we both at this point in our lives, and correct me if I'm wrong, are in Alcoholics Anonymous.
Zeinah Estrada:
Right.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And what is it that you think... I know a lot of people are like, "Well, I'm not an alcoholic, I'm a drug addict." And that was something I really struggled with. Was that there for you, which is why you started with NA and can you talk about making that transition or why you made that transition?
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah, well, the reason why I did it is probably not the reason why most people do it. I started going to AA because the boy that I liked-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
No, that makes complete sense to me.
Zeinah Estrada:
... Did AA.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yep. 100%.
Zeinah Estrada:
And he wouldn't date me until I finished my steps and he was gung ho about AA and I'm like, "All right, I'll do it." He didn't know that. But I was like, "Okay." So I started going to all these AA meetings and I was like, "I'm going to do it." I got a sponsor, I started doing my step work, I started doing everything. But the craziest thing happened, I started to actually myself.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
This was in AA instead of NA.
Zeinah Estrada:
This was AA instead of NA.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So because, we're you going to NA?
Zeinah Estrada:
I was going to NA for the social part still.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Right, right, right.
Zeinah Estrada:
So I was going there for the social part. I tried to do my step but I wasn't really... Their book is big and it's a lot of work and I was like, "I'm not going to do all that." So I went in and because I had been in treatment so many times, I did steps one, two and three, probably 15 times.
Zeinah Estrada:
So when I found the sponsor in AA, she's like, "Look, we're not even going to do that all over again." She's like, "Let's just keep it moving." So she got me into my fourth step. I went to a fourth step workshop. I did all of that at the workshop. I did my fifth step with her and it was instant relief. I started meeting up with her and doing step work and then I started sponsoring people. So now that I'm done with my steps, this guy wants to date me now. So now I'm like, "So everything's coming together." I'm getting visitation with my kid. I would ride the train to go see her because I didn't have a car or a license or anything like that.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
How old is she and how long did you go without seeing her?
Zeinah Estrada:
So she was, I want to say, gosh.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
She was three when you were having the seizure and she was the hero.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. Three, four, so I want to say she was about six.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh wow.
Zeinah Estrada:
But I would see her a couple... But I think I went up solid year.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Who was she living with in California?
Zeinah Estrada:
So Kevin's dad, my husband's dad, he died. So Kevin died, his dad died and his grandfather died, all within the same year.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh my gosh.
Zeinah Estrada:
So Diane was just here all alone. And so her daughter lived in California and so her daughter was like, "You guys come and live with me." So she opened up her home to Katie and had a room for her and a room for Diane. And Katie went there, Orange County and started living there and was stable. And so I was like, "Good, she's in a good place." I was still like, "I want to see my daughter and I'm good." But then after going there and visiting and her visiting me while I was in treatment at 30 days and she was five because I remember she goes...
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I think you told me this story.
Zeinah Estrada:
I had a chip. And she goes, "Mommy, are you done taking pills? And I said, "I'm done. Don't you see this chip?" And it said... I showed it to her and she goes, "Mommy, this says just for today." And I was like, "Well, I'm going to do that every day."
Zeinah Estrada:
Oh my God, I'm going to start crying. But at first I was like, "Oh my gosh, she can read." I had missed so much, I didn't even know that my kid could read. And so she reads that. And so now I have a more of a purpose to stay sober. So I start initiating relationship with her and then going to see her as much as I can. But our reunification process was super slow. It was really gradual. I started working in treatment, I started running the sober living.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Do you think that you could have gone straight into 12-step program?
Zeinah Estrada:
No.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So the value for you... Because this was my experience too, which was that the 12-step program has become a huge... If not my life, but I couldn't have gotten there without the treatment portion.
Zeinah Estrada:
I couldn't, I had to... The chemicals in my brain, first of all from all of the drug use were so messed up that I couldn't function. I couldn't grasp anything that anyone was telling me. I had to be medically stabilized first. That was step one. Step one is, "Stop having seizures so that your brain can clear." And then I started doing the trauma therapy because 12-step program and trauma therapy and medication are three different parts to my sobriety.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Right.
Zeinah Estrada:
But I have to have all three of those parts or else I cannot function. And so a lot of times people miss one or the other or they're over medicated or they're undermedicated or they're not talking to a therapist and they're trying to get it all from AA, but it has to work together. There's not just one thing that fixes someone and it's different for everyone.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Right. You have to have your individualized, right.
Zeinah Estrada:
So it's just, someone might not need trauma therapy but they need a counselor or someone might not need any of that and they can just do AA, but it just depends on the person. Every person is different. And that's why this disease is so horrible. Because the same treatment doesn't actually work for everyone. Some people do better with Celebrate Recovery, Christian program. Some people do better with a Buddhist program, whatever it is, but there's got to be some spiritual element to it.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Right.
Zeinah Estrada:
So whatever spiritual... And that's so hard when you first get sober.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh my gosh.
Zeinah Estrada:
Because I hated God so much. [crosstalk 00:59:43].
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I was straight up, I didn't believe it. Just like, "This is really ridiculous."
Zeinah Estrada:
I was like, "What kind of guy would put me through all that stuff? What kind of God kills my husband? What kind of got... Why?" The spiritual part is a big deal. And that's what I found in AA, because I was so mad at the church and I was so mad at Muslims and Islam and the church and everyone that would tell me their religion is the right way. And I'm like, "No."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
What did you think when you walked into an AA room and they said, God?
Zeinah Estrada:
So I was like, "I'm not doing that part." I was like, "I'm just not going to do that part. I'm not going to believe in your God."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, that's what I did too.
Zeinah Estrada:
I'm like, "I'm just going to not do that part."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I just ignored it.
Zeinah Estrada:
But there was someone that was like, "I'll meet you right where you're at." She's like, "Why don't you use the ocean?" So I use the ocean. And honestly how that happened is, we were at the beach and I saw a giant wave knock down a little kid and I was like, "Oh, that's what I'll use because I know that can knock me on my butt. That's something bigger than me." And so I just started positive coming in and negative going out like with the waves, like rolling with the waves. And then from there, I had that little bit of hope that there may be something bigger than me that really wasn't trying to screw up my life and that there's a reason why I went through all of these things. Now I know that reason, but it was tough. But getting to that point, once I was there, things started to get better.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
How long before you had full custody back?
Zeinah Estrada:
I think it was three years.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Okay. So you got her back. How old was she when she... Eight?
Zeinah Estrada:
So she was about... I think she was seven or eight, maybe seven. I don't know. We did a slow transition like I said. So she was at grandma's full week and I would go visit her on the weekends and then she went to my house on the weekends and then we went to flipping around to my house during the week and grandma's on the weekends. And then now we moved. So it's, it's different.
Zeinah Estrada:
But we tried to do it as slow as possible, number one, because I wasn't sure if I could handle it and I was scared to be a parent and it all worked out. The slow transition I think is really good and it's healthy and it was better for her because then she could learn to trust slowly and it was just great.
Zeinah Estrada:
When I finished my case plan, my case plan was in Florida and they had never done a transfer to the State of California and I would call lawyers and they're like, "Well you have to have an attorney in Florida to do that." And the people in Florida would be like, "No, you have to have an attorney in California." Nobody knew what they were doing and they wanted $10,000 a piece and I'm like, "Forget it." I went online, I found all the paperwork that I needed to find. I filled it all out on my own. I sent it, I mailed it to Florida. I said, "I want you to reopen my case. I had finished my case plan." When they transferred it from Florida to California, the California judge was like, "You completed an impossible case plan." He was like, "They literally put so much stuff on here, because they didn't want you to have your kid back." It was crazy. Even when I was sober, it took me three years sober to complete my case plan from Florida.
Zeinah Estrada:
They said only 3% of people that get that case pen will complete it. And it's just so sad because they're not giving these parents the tools that they need to get their kids back. They're just like, "Oh you're a drug addict. Bye, let's take your kids." But the kids aren't getting a stable environment. Because they're just pulled in and out of foster care. Like "Help the parents to get better." Which California did. Florida was not that way.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So you started working in treatment and now you're married, you have two little ones plus your oldest daughter. How did you meet your current husband? Third time's a charm baby.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. It runs in the family actually. So he was working... Well, we were both actually at the same treatment center. He did not want anything to do with me though. And he started working there and then I started working there and then I started doing my steps and then we became really good friends, super good friends. But I was obsessed with him.
Zeinah Estrada:
The beginning of our relationship was him breaking up with me a lot because he still had feelings for his ex. And so we would start to get close and he would be like, "I made a mistake, I'm sorry." And he would break up with me and so I would be devastated. And then we would get back together and then he'd be like, "I'm never going to get married. I'm never going to have kids. I'm never going to move in with you. I'm never..." All of these things. And checking them off the list as they happen.
Zeinah Estrada:
He finally was like, "Okay, I'll agree to have a baby with you." And I was like, "Okay, I'll settle for that." Because I wanted more kids, but then I was like, "I can't have a baby without being married. Because my older kid will be..." That's an okay thing to do, it's fine. But it's harder to raise a family on your own when you're not together and married or whatever.
Zeinah Estrada:
So we ended up planning a wedding date and then I got pregnant. And so our wedding was supposed to be in [Lintoo 01:04:59] October 9th or something. And the baby's due date was October 24th and it was like, "Yeah, that's not going to happen." So we went to Vegas. We went to Vegas, we had a bunch of people come. It was super fun though. I was pregnant, I was very pregnant and so we got married and then we...
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And he's sober a long time, right?
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah, he's six months ahead of me.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Okay, cool.
Zeinah Estrada:
So he has eight years already.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And what has your sobriety journey been like? We talked a bit about what are the main things in your recovery, the different components. One thing I want to touch on is sober parenting, because you have a lot of experience just in the gamut. And I think a lot of people, really stress sober parenting is everything.
Zeinah Estrada:
Sober parenting is no joke. It is ridiculous.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So we were talking about this, right?
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
We were talking about how you have your drug of choice is opioids and Xanax. But now...
Zeinah Estrada:
Now I just want a glass of wine. My kids...
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Right. Mommy wants...
Zeinah Estrada:
Yes. So I will see on Facebook or social media or wherever and they're like, "Oh, had a long day and I'm going to have a glass of wine now that my little ones are sleeping." I don't get to have that. I get to like, "Oh yeah, I'm going to do a little prayer and meditation now."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, "I'm going to do some deep effing breathing."
Zeinah Estrada:
Yes. Like, "Let me write a letter to my anger."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. " [inaudible 01:06:38] on my fucking tools."
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. It's different.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
It's interesting because every woman I talk to who is sober deals with the mommy wine culture. It's very pervasive. And I find it interesting that we have normalized this and I think the reason is that the culture of self care is not there. So the wine is a really fast way to give you that relief. And when in reality, we're over overworked, right? That's the issue. The issue is that we're seeking relief.
Zeinah Estrada:
Well, we have to do all of it, as working moms. We work but we're still... And I saw a meme about this the other day like, as working moms, we're still expected to do everything at the house and work full time, but still parent like, we don't work full time.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So there's the saying, "Work like you don't have any kids, parent like you don't work.
Zeinah Estrada:
That's it. Exactly.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And I was like, "Yep, that's real." And there's the mental, I was talking to my husband about this, there's a mental piece to it. So I can have my husband, I can say, "Okay, you're going to do this list of things, right? You're going to pack the kids' lunch, you're going to take the trash." All these things, right? Like, "Here's your thing." But I'm still organizing the list of things that needs to get done. It is still mental space,[crosstalk 01:08:18].
Zeinah Estrada:
And at night, when you're laying in bed, you're like, "What did I not tell him to do?" Or if I leave and then as I'm going through my day I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I forgot to..." And he's super helpful.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
No. It has nothing to do with that.
Zeinah Estrada:
He'll get up. He'll do the laundry. He gets up with the baby and does all this stuff. But still in my mind I'm like, "My heart and my head are back with the kids." And so I'm then constantly like, "Did I remember to do this? And I remember that. What am I going to make for dinner? Did I get that at the store? Did I put that on the list? Did I?" It's draining.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. It's really draining. Yeah. It's, I'm thinking about... He may make dinner, he may do all these things, but I know what size clothes they wear. I'm making sure that the diapers are stocked, the toilet paper, I'm making sure that the food that they actually eat is there. And also that that food has the right nutrition because I've researched the nutrition because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, even if he's the most helpful person ever, it's all there. Whatever. He needs to be helpful. Right? He's all there because I am doing that and that it is renting space in our heads and I think that there's a, there's a real piece of that that takes a whole new level of sobriety.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I don't know if you experienced this, but after having the twins it's like my sobriety has changed because I used to be able to just drop what I was doing or step away.
Zeinah Estrada:
Go to a meeting.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, go to a meeting and call somebody. Sometimes it's like, "I'd like to call someone, but my children are crapping on the floor."
Zeinah Estrada:
And then you get into the crapping on the floor thing and then you forget that you were supposed to call someone.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Totally.
Zeinah Estrada:
So then now it's midnight-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
You don't want to talk because you're drained.
Zeinah Estrada:
And you're like, "I don't even want to talk to anyone right now."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. And then the day goes by.
Zeinah Estrada:
And then it's good to have people like you, because I know that I've used you. Where I can text you and be like, "Dude, my life is crazy right now." And I know that if I don't... If you texted me something and I don't respond within three days or something like that, you're like, "That's normal because she has a million kids." And you're not offended or anything that.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh, yeah.
Zeinah Estrada:
So I think that the people that I associate with now are different than the ones that I did when I was first sober. Because when I was first sober I was like, "Yeah, I'll go to six meetings a day. I'll go to all these AA events and this and that."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, sure we'll go dinner, sure we will.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah, exactly, like fellowship. And now I'm like, "Which meeting has babysitter? I need to go to that." And there's one, there's literally one. Yeah. So I've had to rearrange my schedule, my husband's schedule. So he'll go to a meeting on the days that I don't go to a meeting.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, I do the same thing.
Zeinah Estrada:
And then I'll go to a babysitting meeting. But I don't really the babysitting meeting.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah.
Zeinah Estrada:
It's I'm not getting what I need. And I've also noticed that throughout my sobriety, the meetings that I need are different. So I'll get bored or I need to switch it up a little better. Sometimes I need meetings where people have had more real life stuff and not everything's rainbows and unicorns and perfect and shiny or whatever. I need real people with their real stories that are gone through it and then are coming out and sometimes these... It's hard to find those things because you can't try all of them.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Right.
Zeinah Estrada:
Where before and then I moved. So then I moved to a new place and we opened this IOP and this sober living and now we have a business, we have three kids, we moved to a different city. I have no family here. All of my family's in the South and I have to still find a meeting and I have to find a new sponsor and I have to do all these things, but I don't get as many opportunities as I used to. And then I start to feel like, am I just making excuses? Which, maybe.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, I don't know, they sound legitimate. I think it doesn't actually matter whether they're excuses or not because it's what has to be done and the reason is your experience... Something that's always touched me about your experiences because it is what mine would look, because opioids also were my drug of choice and so that is what it would look for me, is my kids experiencing that. And I think when I thought about using before, it was I'm like "I'm going to lose my car, I'm going to fail out of school." Whatever I was doing, right? The things I would lose were... I'm not saying they weren't important, but they weren't my children. And now the stakes are so high. That's what's so terrifying to me. It's like I have this disease in my head that wants to be part of mommy wine culture that wants to go and do all these things.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah, it looks good.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. It looks really good, but the stakes are so high. They've never been this high.
Zeinah Estrada:
But I can't be like, "Mommy wine culture."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
No, I'm not-
Zeinah Estrada:
I can't go have one sip of wine and be like, "Oh, I don't the taste of it." And put it down and then carry on to the next whatever they're doing.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
We don't even know what they're doing.
Zeinah Estrada:
I don't even know what they're doing. I don't even know what that looks like, wine tasting, I've never been.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
It's stupid, it's ridiculous.
Zeinah Estrada:
Because my wine tasting would be like, "Okay, let's have a shot of tequila and stuff, this isn't working."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
They don't even fill the glasses all the way. It's very frustrating.
Zeinah Estrada:
And then I would be running around naked somewhere.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
For sure.
Zeinah Estrada:
And then wake up in someone's car, because I don't know what happened. But Yeah. So I don't get to do that.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
The whole word tasting, is the part that confuses me.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah, I don't get that.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, I don't...
Zeinah Estrada:
You take and then you spit it out? Do you swallow it?
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
You could swallow it, but it's meant to... You're like, "I don't drink for the taste."
Zeinah Estrada:
I don't like the taste. I hold my nose and I gulp. That's my thing.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I have learnt to like the taste because I associate the taste with what's about to happen.
Zeinah Estrada:
I'm just like, "I'm going to hold my nose and chug it as fast as I can."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. That's your take.
Zeinah Estrada:
That's my Azania. Right?
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Is that how you do it?
Zeinah Estrada:
I only did it one time and they didn't fill the glasses all the way full and I got really drunk and everybody was [crosstalk 01:14:38].
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Was there a tequila tasting?
Zeinah Estrada:
No, that's what [inaudible 01:14:40] do.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh yes, they do have those. But I don't...
Zeinah Estrada:
That's what that's about. [crosstalk 01:14:44].
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, I think they do actually spit that out. I don't know. I'm so like, "This is so not my expertise on that.
Zeinah Estrada:
That's it. Just the fact that this is where my head goes with this tells me that even though in my mind I'm a drug addict, this is not normal.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
That's what's crazy is you're at this space and you're at this place in your life. What it really comes down to for me and I think for you, I'll go on a limb and speak for you in this situation is, in our heads, alcohol is less destructive.
Zeinah Estrada:
Totally.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And so when we fantasize or when we're like, "Oh God, I wish I could have that." We know that we can't really fantasize about putting a needle in our arm because...
Zeinah Estrada:
That's bad [crosstalk 01:15:27] we've rode that.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. That train has left the station, right? But then it's like-
Zeinah Estrada:
But no one looks at-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
My mom once had a wine tasting and it's like, "Oh, you're an alcoholic. Oh you're an alcoholic." They look at you. But if I have a needle in my arm, that's not acceptable it. [crosstalk 01:15:44].
Zeinah Estrada:
So our head is telling us we need a break and it goes, "Alcohol." And I think that's so important to remember that alcoholism... I always say, I hate the term alcoholism because it's just ism. It'll attached to whatever it is, cunning, baffling, powerful, right? It is sneaky, it's going to appear in places that are taking the opportunity.
Zeinah Estrada:
And that's what... Because I had the struggle with like, "Why am I an alcoholic? But I'm not..." But what was explained to me was, it's not about that you drink alcohol, it's that anything that you put into your mind or your body, it turns into a craving or it turns into you want anymore or you're using it to cope with life, whatever it is. And we do that in our brains that are going 500 miles an hour all the time and we just make bigger deals out of everything. Something so small could happen and our whole world is going to crash down and we think of the worst and everything in it. It just doesn't stop and we just need something to shut it up and that is what it is. And so she's like, "You are welcome here." And like, "Come here, be with us." And I'm still there.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
How do you parent a 13 year old girl and still manage your own sobriety? How do you manage the fear of parenting and also your own sobriety?
Zeinah Estrada:
Well I have help. I don't do it by myself. And when I try to do it by myself, it's horrible. It's absolutely horrible. I moved to a town where there is nobody and there were no meetings and I mean there were, but whatever. It wasn't-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
It's hard to be South Cal.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah, Southern California is just insane. 10,000 meetings a week here. So there were five a week where I was and so you don't get a lot of people to feed you. And so I was pretty much doing this by myself for two years and not having anyone... I mean I had my Orange County girls, I had my sober contacts in Orange County, but nobody was with me where I was. And so being alone and not... I had a slight mental breakdown, honestly.
Zeinah Estrada:
I had to go to the hospital and get taken off of work. I was pregnant, I couldn't manage it. I couldn't. And so then I moved to a new town where I am now and it's, I got a new sponsor and I still do therapy and I do all of these things and my life's getting better again and now I'm getting established where I am and I feel it's home and I'm rebuilding my support network. And the support network is so important to have people that you can lean on.
Zeinah Estrada:
Because parenting is hard and your kids are not perfect. I don't care who you are, your kids aren't perfect, they're never going to be perfect. But that's part of learning and growing and making mistakes. But me not getting resentful at my kids is the hardest part I think. Because I see my kids doing things and I'm like, "I know that's a bad choice." And telling them, "That's a bad choice, don't do that." And then them doing it anyways and getting hurt and then I get mad at them because I'm like, "I told you." But we don't listen... I didn't listen to my parents. Did you listen to your parents?
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Not at all.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. And so I just... But it get that. I get that letting go is the hardest.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And one thing that I really admire about your recovery and your parenting is that you have professional help that helps you parent, that helps you, tells you like, "Okay, meet her where she is." People always say to me... And since you're sober and in the industry, I'm sure you've heard this too, it's like, "Well, you'll know what to do. Your children are..." What do they say? Because I was joke like, "Oh two alcoholics, have kids." And they're like, "Well you'll be much better prepared than we were or you'll know what to do." And I always think to myself like, "No, it's going to take shape in a totally different way. And I'm also going to be battling and trying to deal with my own recovery." And I don't know how to do those two things.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. So in my experience, it's not that you know what to do because I didn't know what to do, but I knew how to call for help.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yes. Okay.
Zeinah Estrada:
And so I knew how to get in touch with resources. I would just call people. I called and I called and I called and I called until I found someone that had the right answers for me. And you all know what the right answer is, but I didn't know the answer. I had to find it and not everything works. So I just tried a lot of things, she was really struggling and I did, I just kept calling. And some of them would be like, "No, we can't take adolescence. We can't help adolescents. There's no therapy for adolescents." Because I was a screwed up parent when she was growing up. So she has trauma stuff that she had to work on. There were no people that worked with children.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Right.
Zeinah Estrada:
And so that was really hard. But I didn't stop. I just kept looking for the answer. And then you know what, it worked out. And just for right now, for this moment, for today, she's doing really well. But we still have professional help, we have professional help, I have non-professional help, I have support, I have all of these different places that I know when shit hits the fan I can call these people for help and when I can't be a good parent, there's other people that will step in to have my back and when I don't have my crap together, my husband's there and we have a rule at my house. Both of us can not be crazy at the same time.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
There's only one crazy.
Zeinah Estrada:
There's only room for one. So if he is having a hard time with life, right then I have to step up and be that stable parent. And then when I'm having a hard time he's got to step up and let me tell you, I have a lot more hard times than he does. So I'm usually...
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Also a lot more pregnancies than he does.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. Pregnancies, rough.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. Pregnancy. What about pregnancy and sobriety?
Zeinah Estrada:
Pregnancy and sobriety is insane.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Next level.
Zeinah Estrada:
I turn into a psycho, literally I hate my husband.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Me to.
Zeinah Estrada:
Hate him.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I remember we talked about this. It's called-
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. I'm like "Why are you breathing?"
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
It's called pregnancy rage.
Zeinah Estrada:
"Can you go in another room and breathe before I shove a pillow into your face."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, I have that too.
Zeinah Estrada:
I'm like, "Did you just swallow?"
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Because some people get really, really emotional. They'll cry at any... And I got livid. At one point we were in a fight. I have no idea why. And I was like, "I'm going to go have the twins in North Cal. I'm taking them to North Cal. I'm going to go have a Ms Stanford at my parents' house and you're going to see them through plexiglass." He goes, "Why am I going to prison?" And am like, "I don't know." [crosstalk 01:23:25]. It's just the girl rage. He's just like, "Why I'm I going to prison?
Zeinah Estrada:
I said I was getting a divorce. I remember I was like, "That's bad timing, girlfriend. You need a warm body." It was like, "I'm going to get a divorce." And you're like, "Whoa, who's going to be at the... Someone will love me and all my pregnancy, I'm still beautiful. Oh my gosh. I don't know. But I was crazy and I was so crazy after I had the baby up until two months ago. I'm still crazy, but I don't say that we're going to get a divorce anymore, we're working things out. But man, I can't believe he's still around. Like, "Why, why are you still here?"
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Well, it's really hard to... This was my experience. I'm laying, I'm pregnant, my husband's laying next to me, we would go to sleep every night and every day I wake up a bit fatter and bigger and smellier and more disgusting and nothing happens to him. So for nine months, every day I am transforming into some form of large, disgusting pumpkin and nothing has happened to him. And they love us through it. And you know what's so funny though? So my belly was growing and so I was not wanting to take my shirt off or anything in front of him. And I'm getting dressed and the towel doesn't really fit around you anymore. And so half of my stomach's hand and he goes, "Oh look at how cute. You're getting stretch marks." And I'm like-
Zeinah Estrada:
That would have been a punch to the face.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I'm like, "What to do to say to me." But in his mind, that's cute, I'm growing his child. To him it's a beautiful thing, to me I'm like, "Ooh, I'm gross fat, ugly, disgusting." But to him he's like, "We created life or whatever." And I'm like, "Ew, why are you looking at me? Did you just look at my stretch marks?" I can't even see them. Dude, I didn't know. So this is what happened, my belly was so big that I didn't know I was getting stretch marks because it was literately-
Zeinah Estrada:
That's what I'm saying, I couldn't see them.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, couldn't see it.
Zeinah Estrada:
They're underneath the belly.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, underneath the belly. So, I said to the doc, I was like, "I'm just really relieved because I'm not getting any stretch marks." Just seeing the look. And I was like, "Oh no. Are they there?" Then I had him check and he just like, "Nope. Well, a little." And then you go through the thing where you're trying to look in the mirror.
Zeinah Estrada:
Oh, I would get my phone, I would try to record it because I can't see the phone under my belly, so I'd hit record and I would go down and I'm like, "Oh God, why did I..." There's a reason why we can't see that.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
It's so true. Couple of times I got stuck in the bath tub. It was the most humiliating time in my entire life.
Zeinah Estrada:
Oh my God. So true.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So often and he was like, "How is it possible that you can't get up?" I'm like, "Trust, me, I would do anything not to be stuck this."
Zeinah Estrada:
Well you can't use any of your core either and you're like, this Cheyenne belly of... But you had two babies in there.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And [inaudible 01:27:05].
Zeinah Estrada:
I couldn't get up with one baby in there. I can't even-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I really did not look a human. I was like, "Wow, this is not how this is supposed to..."
Zeinah Estrada:
It's like, "How does your stomachs stretch that far? It's amazing."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Amazing is not right.
Zeinah Estrada:
So beautiful.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, I was like, "This is not okay." I remember saying to the thing to my OB, "So is there any chance that I won't have stretch marks?" And he just was like, "No, absolutely not." And he was like, "Honey, but you'll have beautiful babies." I was like, "Arggg."
Zeinah Estrada:
But you do live in Orange County and there is some really good plastic surgeons here.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I know.
Zeinah Estrada:
Just get that cutoff and go on with your day.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. Exactly. I know, but there's a lot to be done in that arena.
Zeinah Estrada:
Gosh, I can't believe I survived that. And you survived that.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
But you have a five month old.
Zeinah Estrada:
I know.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
You're just out of this.
Zeinah Estrada:
I'm barely surviving. Well I have a five month old, I have a two year old and I have a 13 year old and they're all girls. All girl girls.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
All girls.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah, so when I try not to think about it-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
How do you stay sober, in those moments... When you've had those moments where you're like... I've had the moments, mine are more like, "I'm going to run away. I'm literally..."
Zeinah Estrada:
That's what I do.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
"I'm going to run away. I'm out of this house. I'm going to be down... I'm serious." I'm not talking about packing my bags. I'm talking about exiting the building. I don't even need bags.
Zeinah Estrada:
No.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Where I'm going, we don't need bags.
Zeinah Estrada:
I'm know. I'm running away, [crosstalk 01:28:48].
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I think the first thought is to run away.
Zeinah Estrada:
I love my kids, my kids are great, but sometimes it's just too much, like fighting with a two year old about if her shirt is backwards, when it is backwards, I know for a fact that it's on backwards. But if I try to turn her shirt around, she'll take off every piece of clothing and then she'll refuse to get dressed and then she want to pick out a different outfit and then she wants to wear a Tutu and I'm like, "You can't wear a Tutu to where we're going because I can't clip the car seat." So then it's a 15 minute blow up for that. And then meanwhile my 13 year old is downstairs like, "Mommy, you didn't wash my leggings, I don't have anything to wear to school."
Zeinah Estrada:
And then the five month old is like, "I need to nurse again." And I'm just like, "Okay, run away."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah.
Zeinah Estrada:
So like, "I'm going to run away now." So then [crosstalk 01:29:40]. In those moments though, honestly, I'll tell my husband, I'll say, "I need a break." And he'll be like, "Okay, when I get home..."
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
What if he's not there?
Zeinah Estrada:
No. He'll say, "When I go home from work, you can go do whatever and I'll take on the kids." But that wasn't always the case.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Right.
Zeinah Estrada:
So before it was like I was isolated in the mountains with no one there.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I remember that.
Zeinah Estrada:
In those moments I would cry. I would do a lot of crying.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Because there's no one, you're just going to cry it out.
Zeinah Estrada:
I would call people that I knew had kids, could they talk me down and I would just tell myself like, "It's not going to be like this forever. It's not going to be this forever." And because I couldn't run away, I didn't have anyone to help me. I was literally like a single parent. That was hard. I did a lot of crying and I started playing a game on my phone. Honestly, this thing, it's horrible. I started playing a game on my phone.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Tell me, it's not candy crush.
Zeinah Estrada:
No, no, no, no. This is a game where there's castles and there's-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Clash of Clans.
Zeinah Estrada:
No, it's called Guns of Glory and there are people in your Alliance and you meet people from all over the world.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh dear God.
Zeinah Estrada:
And it's crazy. But these people were like my friends through this and I still talk to them and honestly that's the only way... Because I was so isolated. I was working from home. I didn't know any of these mountain people, when I would meet the mountain people, most of them were smoking meth and I'm like, "I don't want to hang out with you." And so I started playing this game and honestly that thing, that stupid game got me through a year of my life.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Whatever works. Right?
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. I didn't drink though.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, that's what I mean. Whatever... Sometimes I'll do... This sounds really strange, but I'll do pushups just to get my endorphins going.
Zeinah Estrada:
That's good.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Because it releases endorphins.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah, just something.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So trying to get some sort of...
Zeinah Estrada:
Me and my two year old right now, she likes to do yoga.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh that's awesome.
Zeinah Estrada:
We find kid yoga videos on YouTube.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
That's awesome.
Zeinah Estrada:
And we do it in my living room. So that's super fun. But I had a really bad sciatic injury and so I haven't been able to do much for after this baby. She really wrecked me but I'm healing. I just keep saying I'm healing,
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I'm healing.
Zeinah Estrada:
I am healing.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
This is me healing.
Zeinah Estrada:
I'm healing.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. My kids are two and a half. I think I'm still healing.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. Well you don't ever heal from that.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
We don't recover actually.
Zeinah Estrada:
Yeah. There's some things we don't recover from.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, I know.
Zeinah Estrada:
It's different.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. Well, you actually, you worked at Lionrock and then you decided... Hey, I never said anything, but you decided to open an IOP and in a town where there are not a lot of resources.
Zeinah Estrada:
No.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And you've been able to help a lot of people in that area and keep people a long time and really do the good that needs to be done for our fellow strugglers. Has that been helpful and kind of what's going on, what does it look today?
Zeinah Estrada:
So starting an Intensive Outpatient Program sounded like a really great idea. It's so much work. It has been so much work and honestly, my husband and our therapists, we're all partners and they did so much of this work. My job was like, "Don't let your kids die. Just keep your children alive while they build this company." And so I was literally isolated for the whole time that we are growing this business. That has been the hardest part is, because now it's not like, "Oh, I'm at work from 9:00 to 5:00 and then it turns off." It's like, "We are there for our clients 24 hours." It's a 24 hour thing. It's, we do sober living and intensive outpatient and trauma therapy. And then we do weekend activities with them like outdoors, because we're in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada, so we'll take them hiking or skiing or whatever the season is.
Zeinah Estrada:
And so it really, it takes a lot out of our family time. So that's been a struggle, trying to find balance. It's the whole thing, that's the key in sobriety is just recalibrating-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, constantly.
Zeinah Estrada:
All the time. It's like, "Oh, you think you got balance? Hey, I'm going to throw something else in there." Or like, "Well, here's another baby. Why don't you balance that?" Like, "Oh, you can walk just fine. Let's give you [ Sayana Cod 01:34:29]. Now try to take care of three kids from the bed. Let's do that and run a business." So just honestly, having support, having people that I can call to talk to that are sober, strong women and the women.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, the savior.
Zeinah Estrada:
I have to have strong women. And when I first got sober, I hated women because I hated myself. But now I look to women that I want to be more like, instead of... Before I was like, "Let me find people beneath me so that I'm better than them." And I was intimidated by these strong women. But now I seek them and like, "I want to know how you're doing that because if you can do that then I can do that. But I need some love and support from you." Right?
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, love me.
Zeinah Estrada:
And we got to stick together though. Women can be really awful. So I try to surround myself with the positive ones and the ones that are like, "You know what? Oh you breastfeed, I use formula." Whatever. Your kid's getting fed, whatever you do that works for you, that works for your family, do it. There's so many moms that are... Moms are so hard on each other and it's horrible. However you parent, the best for you. Because the way that you parent your first kid will be different than the way that you parent your second kid. Because your second kid is not going to respond the same way that your first kid is. Because one's an extrovert, one's an introvert, one of them likes to play with football, my other one likes to read. So the way that you parent both of them is different and then working and throwing a business into that whole thing. It's just [crosstalk 01:36:12].
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And reserving the right... When we talked about this, I'm reserving the right to be wrong or change your mind. I think that's been a huge thing for me, which is I used to think this and then I got more information and now I think this and that's okay. It's okay that I could change my mind. It's okay to admit like, "Oh yeah, I was wrong about that or whatever it is." I think a lot of times people stick to whatever idea they had to begin with because they've basically built everything upon that and raising kids has to be this way or whatever. And then we get more information and it's like, "Oh, okay, well I don't think spanking is a good idea or it is or whatever."
Zeinah Estrada:
And it's not even more information. For me it's just, it'll be different. The circumstance will be different.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Right.
Zeinah Estrada:
And you can't be so rigid. You really can't. It takes a village. They don't say that for an... There's a reason why they say that because something... So, okay, me and my 13 year old, we have a good relationship now, but for a while she wouldn't talk to me and so I had to call on my girls and so they would come to my house and talk to her and she would build a relationship with them and instead of being like, "Oh, well she's not talking to me, I'm not going to let her talk to anyone." You know what I mean? There's so many things and kids can be really hurtful and they hurt your feelings and there's emotions going everywhere and then you get butt hurt because they don't respond to the way that you do it. Even though as a professional I help people.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I know.
Zeinah Estrada:
I know what you're supposed to do. I know how to approach you and you're shutting me down. My job is to literally not judge people and help you get into treatment and get help. There is nothing that you could say to me that will make me not like you or any of those things and still she lies to me. So those parts, those are the really hard parts, but that's when you call on your friends, your girls, your family. You guys are my family now. It's not even like, "These girls are my friends." But us being compassionate towards one another, it's such a big part.
Zeinah Estrada:
Because if I feel like I'm going to be judged by you, if I'm honest with you about something that my kid did and then you judge me, then am I not going to call you, then I'm not going to have support.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Right.
Zeinah Estrada:
And then who are you going to call when your kid's acting a jerk? Because they will. Your kids are going to go screw up. But that's okay. It's just you do what you can and help them get back on track.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And live by example.
Zeinah Estrada:
And lead by example.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Because they're paying attention.
Zeinah Estrada:
They are, even when you think they aren't, they are. That's so true.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Thank you so much for coming. I really appreciate it.
Zeinah Estrada:
Thank you too for having me.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And I'm just, I love your progress and your willingness to constantly ask for help. I think it's a very beautiful thing.
Zeinah Estrada:
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 4:
Courage to Change, a recovery podcast would to thank our sponsor, Lionrock Recovery for their support. Lionrock Recovery provides online substance abuse counseling, where you can get help from the privacy of your own home. For more information, visit www.lionrockrecovery.com|podcast. Subscribe and join our podcast community to hear amazing stories of courage and transformation. We are so grateful to our listeners and hope that you will engage with us. Please email us comments, questions, anything you want to share with us, how this podcast is affected you. Our email address is podcast@lionrockrecovery.com. We want to hear from you.