You are going to LOVE this very special episode! Ashley hosts her husband, Dac Blassingame, and they go in-depth about life and marriage in recovery and everything that comes along with it. Tune in to hear them speak about their lives from dating to marriage and kids, and their struggles and triumphs both in short-term and now their long-term sobriety.
#15: You are going to LOVE this very special episode! Ashley hosts her husband, Dac Blassingame, and they go in-depth about life and marriage in recovery and everything that comes along with it. Tune in to hear them speak about their lives from dating to marriage and kids, and their struggles and triumphs both in short-term and now their long-term sobriety.
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Show Notes:
4:50 - The competitive advantages of dating/being with someone who is sober
7:20 - The tough conversation: what happens if someone relapses
12:00 - The concept of staying in your own program when you have a spouse who is in recovery as well.
21:10 - Concerns about having children with two people in recovery (pre-disposal to the disease of alcoholism)
28:40 - Learning to be open and talking about therapy in marriage and relationships
35:40 - A message from our sponsor, Lionrock Recovery
36:31 - Dac talks about his journey to sobriety
41:45 - Feeling like you’re missing a parental tool (ex: the “Mommy wine culture”)
45:25 - What it used to look like when they were loaded, and the issues that would come with that
50:21 - Advice for someone who may not want kids
52:16 - What Dac does to stay sober now (vs. when he and Ashley first got married)
1:02:16 - The same program can work differently for different people
The Courage to Change: A Recovery Podcast would like to thank our sponsor, Lionrock Recovery, for their support. Lionrock Recovery is an online substance abuse counseling program where you can get help for drinking or drug use from the privacy of your own home. For more information, visit http://www.lionrockrecovery.com.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Hello, beautiful people. Welcome to the Courage to Change: A Recovery Podcast. My name is Ashley Loeb Blassingame and I am your host. Today we have a very special guest, one that I thought was so special that I married him, Mr. Dak Blassingame. My husband, yes, he has come on the show and we did an interview that was very interesting. Dak is 16 years sober so it was really fun to talk to him about his sobriety, how that affects marriage, how that affects obviously our marriage, which is the one we have experience with parenting, our fears about raising children who are predisposed to alcoholism, and what it's like to have two people who speak the same recovery language be in a relationship longterm. Dak and I have been together for 10 years, and so we have a lot of experience with each other, a lot of growing up together and it's been a lot of work and a lot of fun.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And I wanted to interview him to get a different side of recovery because Dac's, alcoholism and recovery are very different than mine. I think it's really good to see how recovery works in two different people's lives. Whose alcoholism expresses itself very differently, but the same process, the same tools, the same program work to keep those people, those two different people sober longterm. So anyway, you'll hear us even work out miscommunication and thoughts of resentment and different things in the podcast. So it should be an interesting listen. Hope you stick around. This is episode 15 and let's do this. Dak has been love of my life. Welcome to The Courage to Change: A Recovery Podcast and our little studio here.
Dac Blassingame:
Thank you for having me.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Very excited to have you here and happy birthday.
Dac Blassingame:
Thank you.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
How old are you? Almost 40.
Dac Blassingame:
Well, yes, 37 today.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Woo. How do you feel?
Dac Blassingame:
Older. 27 and like 33 were great.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh my God.
Dac Blassingame:
Not just because of our relationship.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
This has gone downhill real fast. This is taken a serious-
Dac Blassingame:
No, it is what it is. Getting old that's why. It's all done.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
You don't feel these are your golden years?
Dac Blassingame:
I don't think I'm there yet.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Well, I heard something recently that said the best time of your life to cherish is when your parents are healthy and alive and your children are young. That, that's a very special time in people's lives that they don't realize until they're older.
Dac Blassingame:
I think it'd be more special for the parents that are still alive. But I get down with your thought process or do you read that daily mail?
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
What's wrong with the daily mail Dak?.
Dac Blassingame:
All right, let's go, tell your audience what we're actually doing after this.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
What? We're going to dinner?
Dac Blassingame:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yes. I do not eat meat or dairy and I'm vegetarian and then I'm lactose. I became lactose intolerant after the twins were born, don't ask. And Dak got to choose because it's his dinner, his birthday where he wants to go to dinner and he chose a place called Bourbon Steak.
Dac Blassingame:
Second highest rating in all of Orange County. Wagyu all over the menu. Why wouldn't we go there?
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I'm so excited to celebrate your special day.
Dac Blassingame:
It is my day.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. All right, so I want to talk about sober marriage, what it's like to... We've been together since August. Went on our first date, August 10th, 2009. So we will be coming up on 10 years this August of being-
Dac Blassingame:
Common law, marriage.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Being romantically involved or unromantically at moments.
Dac Blassingame:
Well, beautiful.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Do you see, so we've been together 10 years and a lot has changed in that time. What do you think the difference between a sober couple being together 10 years? And what you see in other relationships where one or both members of the relationship is not sober?
Dac Blassingame:
You have competitive advantages to having a partner that is also sober. I've had multiple friends and even I've dated individuals that haven't been women that haven't been sober and there is next level of communication, a fourth dimension that you can get on with your sober partner if you've both been in the trenches both together and on your own that you don't really get. You and I both know what it was like or what it is like to be newcomers. We know what it's like to get five years and feel we're not punks in a program anymore.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh God, 16 years. What year did you guys-
Dac Blassingame:
2003, February. A long time. It just all runs together.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
It all runs together. Okay. So what is when you say that fourth dimension, what do you mean?
Dac Blassingame:
You can sense when I am dry, I can sense when you're dry. We actually know what that even means. We have individually been in the trenches and therefore can empathize when one is going through something that a normal non-alcoholic might not understand.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Like what?
Dac Blassingame:
Oh my gosh.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Like what's a scenario where-
Dac Blassingame:
Okay so let's think about us dating for a year and you're not sober and I am sober. You're not an alcoholic and I am an alcoholic.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I like this.
Dac Blassingame:
Or we can reverse it.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
No way.
Dac Blassingame:
If I start to slip on my meetings, if I'm not having involved conversations or practicing the 12 steps not doing step work, networking with other alcoholics or calling other alcoholics. A person not in recovery, they might not recognize warning signs. Either one of us gets into a slippery pattern. We're going to kick the other in the-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And we've had to do that. We've had to do that over the course of the past 10 years. And-
Dac Blassingame:
But it has its drawbacks as well. The real risk of not only... We dated for quite some time, but now it's merged accounts, it's children. It's the next evolution.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Well, so something that we've talked about quite seriously is what happens now that we have kids. What happens if one of us gets loaded and the conversation that we have, which feels really weird thing to say to somebody, was that if one of us gets floated, it is the other's responsibility to protect our children from that person in whatever way, shape or form that is. And I can tell you as the mother saying that telling you that if I get loaded to protect my children from me is a really, really awful feeling saying that out loud.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
But what I know is that I'm not the same woman when I'm loaded and that I love my children so much that if that were to happen, I want them to be safe. And that I married someone who will keep them safe and vice versa. And that's a painful thing to say. It's a painful thing to say like if I do this thing, and it also, I don't know if you felt this way, but maybe this is just my special sickness. It also felt it closed the door on it for me too because-
Dac Blassingame:
On getting loaded?
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, because it was like, Whoa, I can't get loaded, there's no option there. And I think for a long time we live like I really did live one day at a time where one moment or a time or one year at a time wherever I was feeling in my sobriety and having to say if I get loaded, I am risking contact with my sons. Having to say that out loud and have that dialogue with you brought me to a place that I can never let that happen.
Dac Blassingame:
And yet still we have this devil on our shoulders that-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. And I know there've been times that you have had to reach out to other people to say like, "I'm worried about Ashley, I'm seeing signs, I'm seeing things that really concerned me." And I did the same for you, was it last year?
Dac Blassingame:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And this is actually the thing about recovery and both of us being sober that now that I think about it is very different. I came to you and discussed what I was concerned about with your recovery in a moment of no turmoil and nothing was actually happening and there were no current consequences. And I remember you looking at me like everything's fine. Ashley, I love my children, I love my wife, I love my life like what are you so worried about?
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And I was like, "I'm worried that you're going to get loaded." And you looked at me like I had three heads. But that actually is a testament to the difference between two people who know what something looks like. I knew you were detached, I knew you were detached from community, you were detached from program, you were detached. And I knew that if something went wrong, which it ended up going wrong. What wat is it like two weeks later?
Dac Blassingame:
Months later.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
A month later when the crap hit the fan. What was beautiful about that was that I will say I will Pat myself on the back, I was very persistent and I didn't drop it because you said some things that really scared me. And by the time things did go downhill really fast that month later you were plugged in. And it wasn't hard for you to get re-plugged in because you had all those skills, and you hadn't drifted so far that it wasn't possible. But what a difference it has made in our relationship in the past year of you being plugged in. And I just think back to what that is the beauty of both of us being in recovery and you've done this. I mean you've actually called my sponsor and said like, "Ashley's not well, you need help."
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah, mine has been, definitely reactive. And I feel you took a moment of proactivity and you probably stepped over the line.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. But I was really afraid because I have a lot riding on your sobriety.
Dac Blassingame:
And vice versa.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. I have a year of sobriety is and I can't even put the amount of importance it is, I depend on you. I don't want to be in that situation, so I had this feeling of... Because we in recovery when you have a spouse in recovery, you're supposed to stay in your own program. You're not supposed to step into the other person's program, that's very Alanon stuff. And I just felt that this was so vital to my life that I had to do something that I was willing to risk being co-dependent.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah and I think a lot of times the position that I was in, driving four hours a day and pursuing something that had the potential to be life altering, not only for myself but for my family, what I was giving up in that span of time.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Will you talk about that because I don't think people know what you're talking about?
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah. So I had left owning my own businesses and-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And what year?
Dac Blassingame:
In 2015, 2016 yes. So right around that, things were starting to close. The doors were closing, we didn't have the capital to really take it to the next level.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
That was 2016 when I got pregnant.
Dac Blassingame:
Oh yeah.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. So that's an important timeline.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah, absolutely. So things were ramping down. I was looking for what was next, I had picked up a little four or five month consulting gig that had the potential to bring in revenue that looked attractive and that fell through as you remember on the day that we found out we were having twins. I wouldn't consider it being fired or was just money is stopping.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
On the day that we found out we were having twins, which I know it's supposed to be a happy day, but it was probably one of the most terrifying days of my life. You found out that however you want to say it, you were no longer employed.
Dac Blassingame:
Correct. Yeah. I was fired. I had very little revenue coming in from my previous business. I sat in the parking lot and argue with someone on the phone because I felt I had gotten bait and switched and then I was fired. Let's just call it what it was. Then we walk into the medical office and then you sit on the table and then the Doctor says, there's baby A. Okay, great. Let's stop there. And then there's baby B and we felt we were getting trolled by the Doctor.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, we were like, "Huh, that's funny."
Dac Blassingame:
And never in a billion years did I walk in there thinking it was going to be anything other than here's your one baby.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. We were like, Ooh, let's hope... We were going for hoping for a heartbeat. Everything's good.
Dac Blassingame:
So I lose that job. We find out that we're pregnant with twins and then I pick up the-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
July 18th of that year is when you started.
Dac Blassingame:
So I picked up a sober companionship gig and it turned out that individual was plugged into the entertainment industry an industry that I dabbled in the mid 2000s in front of the camera terribly, and always wanted to get back there. Never had the in and all of a sudden it felt the universe was putting something at our feet at the perfect time. And we had the conversation, you were all about it for a little while.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh I wanted to support you.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah. And so I got into that business in television production.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So we live in South Orange County.
Dac Blassingame:
Oh yeah, sorry, I forgot how we got there. So we live in South Orange County. That company was based in Santa Monica and in Burbank. So you're pregnant, I start making that drive. We have the twins, I take very little time off when they're born, two hours each way on a bad day, three hours round trip on a good day. But a lot of time in the car, no time for morning meetings, no time for evening meetings.
Dac Blassingame:
I felt I was plugged in that 12th step or the carrying the message or talking to other alcoholics. But I was incredibly disconnected from AA in general. It was an afterthought at all of my time on the week was dedicated to this thing that I'm pursuing. And then on the weekends you've been at home all week with or whatever the situation was. Yeah working and dealing with two infants and an absentee father for the first two years of their lives. And so when I would get home on the weekends, I would almost feel bad to go do... I didn't do anything I think about it. I did nothing
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
No, you didn't do anything. Well because you were gone before the twins woke up and then you were gone during the week before the twins woke up and then you came back, when they were asleep.
Dac Blassingame:
But I would do evening feedings before we learned the trick of hiding the bottle.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh yeah, at 11 yeah.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah. So I would do those.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
It was gnarly, it was really intense. And then that ended, that was the thing when I pushed you to get-
Dac Blassingame:
To the month prior to that unbeknownst to both of us that it was coming to very swift and there's no runway, there's no golden parachute. It's just, it's over. Yeah, so it ends, but a month before is when you co-dependently step in and say, this is whatever's happening here is not [crosstalk 00:17:50]
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
You said the magic words. You said, "I don't think I need AA anymore."
Dac Blassingame:
I don't think I said the, I think you're misrepresenting what actually-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And then you said.
Dac Blassingame:
I said if-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
if I were to drink again, I think it would be okay.
Dac Blassingame:
I don't think I said that either. I said I don't think it would be what it was. So I was 20 when I got sober-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Of course it wouldn't be what it was.
Dac Blassingame:
I don't think that I was actually as close to a drink as you might've thought that I was.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I don't think you were close to a drink. I thought you were in relapse, which is a long process and it was potentially a long process for you and that you didn't have the support system to manage some large painful event, which that was true. And when that happened you had that support.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah. And I would have actually been interesting to see how it would've played out had no action been taken because I still don't think that I would've gotten loaded it after everything that transpired actually. After that went down-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I think it would have taken awhile for sure. I think it would take a couple of years.
Dac Blassingame:
I don't think I would've been in the Headspace like in the positive mindset to get what I actually got which is actually really life changing for our family with what I'm doing.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Like your work now. But you also came to the realization that you had been absent and that you really wanted to participate in your children's lives.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah. And that was-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And you had the tools to deal with me losing my mind every week.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah. That was a shitty first two or three months. It was bad because we could never get on the same page because you have these emotional like, "Oh let's talk it out, we're in a great space." And then two days later it would go back to crisis moment.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I was trying really, really, really hard. I have a lot of financial insecurity and I was trying really, really hard to get to this place of like, this is meant to be, this is why this is happening. Trying to utilize the tools of recovery and be in the moment and be supportive, and then I think a couple days ago by, and I would lose the grasp on the positivity and it would just absolutely tank to the bottom and my go to is like, we're going to be homeless.
Dac Blassingame:
Well, I don't think you ever actually got to a place of peace ever.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I did when you got the job.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah. But I think still, there was a month before that started.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, I have a hard time with that. I have a hard time with that instability stuff it brings up a lot of scary stuff for me and that-
Dac Blassingame:
Which has nothing to do with me.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
No, I mean, you could help you. You certainly have given me the opportunity to work on my issues. I'll give you that.
Dac Blassingame:
You're welcome. I'm just trying to heal you.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I know. I really appreciate that. You really coming through on that. So before we had kids, you had some real concerns, and we both did, but my concerns weren't showstoppers. You had some real concerns about having children, especially given that we both have this fatal progressive, chronic mental illness and that it's highly genetic. What has gone through your mind or what went through your mind at the time when we were discussing having children and you were really afraid of giving them alcoholism and what's changed?
Dac Blassingame:
Not much has changed. They don't have to be alcoholics. They don't have to be and we have a fighting chance that that's not based on environment.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
But when we were talking about having kids that was something you were particularly very concerned about as it factored into whether or not to procreate.
Dac Blassingame:
So we broke up and then got back together in the summer of what?
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
2011.
Dac Blassingame:
Part of me was, no, I don't have kids. I was over it at that point.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
You did a complete 180 though because you really wanted to have kids, and then we broke up and you were over it. I scarred you.
Dac Blassingame:
Well, it wasn't just that, it was some of that for sure, but also I just succumb to the fact that maybe it wasn't going to happen for me.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
You were in 27.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah, whatever, that's just where I was. At that point I just wanted to be, find a partner, whether it was going to be you or it was going to be someone else, and just live our lives normally and not have to worry about what terms with children. The worry-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
You actually wanted a farm of dogs.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah, absolutely. Still do. But so the fear for me was age, it was me being selfish with my time, it was alcoholism for sure. It was more broadly like, do I want to bring children into this world? It's just-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
How did you grapple with the alcoholism piece?
Dac Blassingame:
I don't think I have, I don't think I'm in a position to, I'm not clinically trained. I don't know what the warning signs look like early. It's scares the hell out of me, absolutely.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So sometimes the kids do things or they have meltdowns or whatever and like Jackson will have these big emotions and I'm like, "Oh God, he's sensitive, he's going to be an alcoholic." Or Davis will repeatedly watch something and I'm like, "Oh, it's obsessive compulsive behavior." Do you ever see the boys doing things and think, Oh, this is a precursor.
Dac Blassingame:
I'm not going to act like I know what the precursors are.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Or things that worry you, but you don't have the language maybe, but-
Dac Blassingame:
No, not yet. I can only pin it against my experience growing up and my memories, I don't know where my alcoholism took over. But I was pretty happy go lucky up until 12-ish and then when I found alcohol, it wasn't out of some crazy childhood trauma or what was going on in my household. I had a really great upbringing and I'm in love with my parents. They did the best possible job they could have given the circumstances and they did an incredible job until something just shifted in my brain.
Dac Blassingame:
And I'm just like, "I love the taste of beer or I love smoking cigarettes or I absolutely love smoking weed. I want to continue this." I wasn't drinking for pain or any external factors. So I don't think I'm in a position to judge yet what my children may or may not have. I just have to hope and pray that they don't have to go through life dealing with the same strife that we did or dealing with the same challenges that are now on our shoulders for the rest of our lives.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
How do you feel about, I've done this podcast and my story is now... I think I've always been really open with my story but now it's legitimately out there. How does it feel to be the partner of that? And do you ever worry about your kids hearing this, hearing what mommy did and is it difficult to have people know the intimate details of your wife's struggles at that level?
Dac Blassingame:
I mean it's not the life I would have chosen for you. Am I a fan of your openness? It's very different from me. I'm very shut in emotionally and I don't try to reveal too much. I think where we are going to struggle in the future is you coming from a place of too much too soon. And me coming from like my mom's attitude of hug and shy away from... I don't want them to know what your story is for quite some time. I have wish she didn't put that out there, it is what it is at this point. You've already done it. So now it's just trying to give them-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh, so it sounds you don't want play out like this. It sounds like you don't like that people know.
Dac Blassingame:
I think it would be selfish of me to limit you from doing that in which you are very good at. You have as many people have told you and as we've talked about you have a very unique ability to pull stuff out of people just based on your story and experience and the fact that you don't have casual conversations, everything's very, very deep. So I don't-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Your favorite thing about me.
Dac Blassingame:
So I'm not going to limit that, but-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Very uncomfortable.
Dac Blassingame:
It's not uncomfortable for me, but it's not the life that I want for my children at an early age.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Right. So you have concerns about when they find out about what's happened.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah. And it's not even that. Kids learn about stuff at such young ages now. Things are the worst, there are shootings that are perpetrated by third and fourth graders. This is not what I-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Mommy doing drugs is the least of their... They're going to be grossed out and not want to hear about it.
Dac Blassingame:
No. But there's still things that I will want to keep from them for as long as humanly possible.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. I don't know how I feel about that. What I love about our relationship though is that over the course of the last decade, now we have done a lot of different things and learned how to have a lot of different open conversations and including going to couples therapy, one therapist situation in particular was really life changing for us and changed the way we communicate with each other. And so I know that as we come upon things in our parenting journey and in our marital journey that we know how to ask for help. And what's so cool for me is that I know that if I come to you and I say I really want to go to couples therapy, let's call our therapist and we haven't gone in years. Last time we went was right before the twins were born. Right?
Dac Blassingame:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. So what I know is, and what I see that I feel very blessed to have is I know that if I come to you and I say I want to call Tessa, we need to go to therapy. We need to talk this through and need a mediator or someone to help us understand, you'll go, I don't need to fight you on it. You have experienced the value of that. It wasn't always that way. I mean, I definitely had to drag you, but I think we had such a remarkable experience understanding that we weren't hearing each other accurately and how to hear each other accurately and how to say, "Hey, I'm not hearing what you're saying. Can we start over or Hey, this is what I think I heard you just say, is that right?"
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And then okay, I can have a reaction but at least we know where each other's coming from and I feel that has changed the game for us. It has allowed us to really work through things and come to even civil disagreements on things and as we go forward I'm sure that we will employ that tool of having a third person help us figure out what to do.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah. I have no problem with therapy,
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
One thing that I understand from a lot of men is that they feel when their wife, girlfriend takes them to therapy, that it's going to be a gang up session.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah. It was quite the opposite for us actually. Therapy for me I was-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
But that's what you thought, right?
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah, I was dragged kicking and screaming, actually I wasn't, if you think about it, I didn't like that I had to go. I was resentful that I had to go, but the flip side is that we are at a position when we first originally went where we either going to stay together or break up, it was going to be based on-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
You were willing to go but you were pissed about it.
Dac Blassingame:
I was pissed about it, but what came out of that is, and what we know now is that it taught us a new language or taught us how to understand each other and I think for you, you learned how to actually get through to me and for me it taught me how to grow more of a spine and really push back when I didn't like what was going on. I really develop key communication skills. Walking out of that, number one-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And you felt supported by her. Right?
Dac Blassingame:
I felt supported. I wasn't ganged up on, I felt in a lot of instances you are ganged up on, which is great. That was perfect. You got to see-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
No, I did. Well, one of the coolest moments I remember, I don't know what your coolest moments for you, but one of the coolest moments for me was she said, Ashley, say something that you think is going to be inflammatory to Dak, like a topic or something. And I remember exactly what I said and I said it and she said, Dak, what did she... Something that he will experience is inflammatory but you don't think is inflammatory?
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And I said, what I said, and then she said, Dak, what did you hear Ashley say? And you said something that was entirely different. And I, for the first time I had a witness and she goes, Oh Dak honey, that's not what she said. And I was like, "Oh thank you baby Jesus someone is here to say, because you were having these reactions to me and I was so confused because I was saying what I thought was clear straight forward, just like a little logistical thing. And your reaction was if I had just kicked your dog and that-
Dac Blassingame:
So I just process things differently.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Right. But you heard it differently. Like my tone caused you to hear something different. And it was a lot of it had to do with my tone of voice caused you to hear me as berating and things that I didn't intend. And so we learned how to have language with intention of like, okay, this is what I mean and I'm trying to get this across. So I think that was one of the coolest moments for me at least.
Dac Blassingame:
I don't remember too many cool moments other than it saved our relationships, I guess that helps.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So one of the issues that we had in therapy, this is actually really funny story was how many children? So for once we got over the hump of-
Dac Blassingame:
Well, but let's just remember that we went to therapy and saw her number one to save our relationship and then things were great. Even we got married. Yeah, I got engaged and got married, and then things were fine. We chose to do a little tune up and went and saw her again.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And so our disagreement or our regular conversation was about how many children to have and I wanted three. And you were interested in one or two.
Dac Blassingame:
I was interested in zero, actually the zero is my number. I still at that point was because if you thought hard-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I don't think I even heard that. What we agreed was one at a time. And I remember calling my best friend's Serina after and after therapy because we came in different cars. And so I left in a different car and I called Serina and I was like, I just agreed I just lied in therapy. And she's like, why? I was like, I agreed to one at a time but I'm not accepting any fewer than minimum two children, three. And she was like, well what do you mean you lied? I was like, I agreed but I have no intention of keeping that.
Dac Blassingame:
I hope if we have more children that you get pregnant with triplets.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
You'd listen. I'd be careful what you hope for. So I remember-
Dac Blassingame:
I don't know why I put that up.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Don't put that out there. And so I remember telling her, I agreed to one at a time. And we told the priest who married us, same thing, one at a time. And then of course we got to, we got twins so that was pretty funny.
Dac Blassingame:
But what an incredible two that we got.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, they're really cool.
Dac Blassingame:
They're amazing.
Speaker 3:
Hi, I'm Peter Lobe, CEO and Co-founder of Lionrock Recovery. We're proud to sponsor the Courage to Change and I hope you find that it's an inspiration. I was inspired to start Lionrock after my sister lost her own struggle with drugs and alcohol back in 2010. Because we provide care online by live video Lionrock clients can get help from the privacy of home. We offer flexible schedules that fit our client's busy lives. And of course we're licensed and accredited and we accept most private health insurance. You can find out more about us at lionrockrecovery.com or call us for a free consultation. No commitment at (800) 258-6550. Thank you.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So tell me a little bit about why you ended up getting sober, because our sobriety rather our journeys and sobriety and our journeys before sobriety are vastly different. We share the commonality that we have the same disease but our diseases express themselves very differently. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Dac Blassingame:
I'm a drinker through and through. It wasn't an opioid crisis back then, but it was a benzo crisis is what I saw because you could get Xanax or Valium or Librium or Clonopin for next to nothing, a buck a pill or two bucks a pill. Once I found the pills it took me so much deeper down the rabbit hole and so much more quickly because now I didn't have to go buy a bottle of Jack and drink the entire bottle to get the desired effect. I could go buy a six pack of bud light and take a Xanax an Insta-forget, but it got so dark so quickly, or at least what I thought was dark and I wasn't really chasing anything. I just loved the effect produced by alcohol.
Dac Blassingame:
I love the effect produced by alcohol coupled with pills. And I wasn't all day drinker, but I would smoke weed all day until I could get that drink in me. So weed regulated me until I could drink. And I got into an altercation that could have been life changing. I got assaulted pretty bad and they put a hole in my head and you could see my brain through my skull. And it was-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
It was an accident. There was a mos-
Dac Blassingame:
Miscommunication, yeah. Well mistaken identity. Yeah I got involved with some guys that were mixing it up, and I left my cell phone at the scene and I called it when I got back to my apartment and they thought I was the guy that they were mixing it up with. And as soon as I came back to the scene just to innocently pick up my cell phone they put a brick through my window into my skull and just did me pretty dirty and the cops wouldn't pursue it just, it was awful.
Dac Blassingame:
But that was a moment of, "Okay, wait a second, I love drinking but also this is the result of my drinking." And that's one story in a sea of a billion war stories that I can tell you where I almost lost my life, came as close to serious, serious, injury or death and-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Much of that involved vehicles.
Dac Blassingame:
I love to drink and drive and Texas you could still get away with the cops pulling you over and if you're not all the way intoxicated, they would take your keys or make someone else in the car drive. And it wasn't what it is now. So I got away with everything, I got away with everything and someone should have swiftly kicked me in the butt. I had a lot earlier of an age, but it just didn't happen. And luckily I had a family that didn't really... We have alcoholism all through my family on both sides, in different forms.
Dac Blassingame:
And luckily I had parents who aren't super educated on the topic. They knew what over drinking was and they never gave up, they never gave up on on me. And I mean God bless them we come in and we make amends and we expect to get all these relationships back and that's not the story for everyone. But while I did make amends subsequently, they never gave up on me and God bless them for that. So I just decided that didn't work and it was probably time to do something else. And so I just stopped and that was it. I went to rehab, started going to meetings and here we are 16 years later.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Do you think that you have gained a lot more than a person who say didn't get sober or doesn't have a problem through your journey? Do you think that is-
Dac Blassingame:
I think people that are sober or people that have gone through an Alanon program, for instance, they have tools for life. And I think we can all agree that doing some form of 12 step work, whether you have the disease or you don't have the disease can be beneficial.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Or therapy.
Dac Blassingame:
Sure. Absolutely. And let's say that my drinking wasn't as bad when I got sober. I binge drink, but maybe I was, maybe I wasn't an alcoholic. I can't think of a scenario where my life would be better today if I was still drinking. And God, what is a drink costs like 12, 15 bucks at the bar these days. I can't afford 10 of those.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
No you can't. Who drinks at the bar? It's a waste of money.
Dac Blassingame:
It looks nice though.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
It does look nice. Sometimes, I don't know about you, but I feel parenting, even yesterday when the kids didn't sleep, they didn't take their nap. Those are the days where sometimes I that mommy wine culture and maybe for you it's like the small glass of scotch or whatever it is. I feel I'm missing a parental tool.
Dac Blassingame:
We are, we absolutely are.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
At the end of the day, what do we climb in bed yesterday? Like 7:45, we were like, "Oh, it's been such a long day." We just zone out in other ways obviously. But man, there are days where I feel like I wish there was an easy way for us to check out for me to check out.
Dac Blassingame:
I absolutely agree. For me, I don't even think it would be drinking so much as it would be weed. Weed is so very much legal in California and it looks so good.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Does it?
Dac Blassingame:
Well it does. It does now that apparently you can buy weed, if you want to go to sleep, here's a weed for that. If you want to be awakened, there's a weed for that. They have everything now. They have these strains scientifically done, whatever.No but that would be-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Their marketing campaign has worked hard.
Dac Blassingame:
Well there's no marketing campaign. I never bought into like CVD, but that's what it would be, is me... That's the parental tool that I feel it's not missing from our lives, but it would make things a little bit easier.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
If we did it normally.
Dac Blassingame:
If we didn't normally, yeah. The two foot bong and going through an eighth, that is not acceptable.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And you use drugs, like alcohol and marijuana that are mildly socially acceptable. If I'm doing a little shot here heroin at night like that-
Dac Blassingame:
No socially acceptable.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
There's just no world in which I could... There's no marketing campaign for that, I'll tell you that much right now. There's no like, mommy's little... Can you imagine mommy junkie culture.
Dac Blassingame:
Oh, by the way. That is a serious middle America problem.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Totally you're right, actually.
Dac Blassingame:
Is the mommy opioid.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, you're totally right.
Dac Blassingame:
Apparently this is acceptable. Go for it, have some fun.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I'm just living in the wrong spot.
Dac Blassingame:
You are, go to Kansas.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. I don't understand. I don't know if you think about this, but I think of our parents, what we do with the twins. They would die if we were loaded. They would sneak out into the backyard and we have to keep a serious eye on them and if we were not paying close, if we were fuzzy they can open the front door.
Dac Blassingame:
Well, yeah your fuzzy is different from my fuzzy. But if you really think about the "mommy or the daddy wine culture" these are the same parents that leave a kid's party where drinking is okay and they get in the car and they drive those children home. And I'm not okay with that. That might be acceptable, maybe I'm a prude at this stage of my parenting career, but that's a no, no for me. That's an absolute... And yet when I was drinking, you could not pry the keys out of my hand. So I can't imagine that if I started drinking again, socially that-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, see that's the thing is we were talking about this, which is I get loaded and it's real bad. It's real ugly, really fast. And there's no lipstick on a pig situation with that. But you like to drink a drive. The thing about me getting loaded, I'm just out. The bigger concerns are around money spent and me passing out places and whatever. But you're-
Dac Blassingame:
I don't only like to drink and drive because of the control, but I like to drink and drive fast.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. That terrifies me. I'm not out in the world it's like when I'm loaded, I'm not outdoing things.
Dac Blassingame:
That's the exact opposite. I am the guy that is trying to find the next best thing, chasing whatever is.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
It's like math for you, you're just out there.
Dac Blassingame:
Trying going from one kid's tee ball game to another kid's tee ball game as fast as humanly possible.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
It could be useful when we get into tee ball I'm going to remember. Yeah, I'll just drop out of the game. So I guess it's different. Has that ever come up in our relationship where our different types of alcoholism have concerned you or been an issue?
Dac Blassingame:
Only in what it would look like if either one of us relapsed with kids or without kids. That's not the world that we live in, we live in the world with kids now.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
But you thought about it before.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah, you have to. I'm putting all my chips on you and you're doing the same with me. And if I got loaded, I feel I would try with every ounce of my being to hold it together. And I think if you got loaded, you wouldn't be able to hold it together from jump one you would immediately go down into... If you started banging H again that's not a=
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
What scares me about that is I don't actually think that that's where that would start. I wouldn't even, not that I couldn't find it quickly, but I think it would be an attempt... I think it would be my disease telling me I no longer have a disease. I think it would be me attempting to join mommy wine culture before it would be like-
Dac Blassingame:
Let me just tell you, you would not fit in with mommy wine culture.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Can you imagine everyone's talking about the weather or the latest bra they bought, and I'm like, so tell me your deepest, darkest secrets.
Dac Blassingame:
While I drink this handle of Jack Daniels. "Oh, this is just wine?" Oh, let me go to the store real quick and get that handled.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
So true like, how many bottles of wine is too many? Oh, I brought my own bottles.
Dac Blassingame:
And cut that fits an entire bar.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. I love that there's a wine glass it fits an entire bottle and I was like that's amazing.
Dac Blassingame:
It's just saving your time really because you don't have to pour, you've got it all in one cup. And you go into your next bottle.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I also feel it saves appearances, but maybe that's my alcoholism too because like-
Dac Blassingame:
You look like an asshole pretty big cup to be honest.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
See in my head it really reduces stigma.
Dac Blassingame:
It does not, I'm sorry.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Like you really is like, takes it down. What's the coolest thing that's happening in your life these days?
Dac Blassingame:
I feel like we're in a pretty good spot. I think we went through a couple of years of challenges of trying to scrape by while I was chasing something. And then previous we were in a challenging stage. And so I think we're at a point, at least in this moment where we can breathe a little bit. And I'm just super amped on being a dad right now. I love it, even days like yesterday to go through a challenging day with two kids that are in pissed off moods that don't sleep, don't want to listen and-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Hate each other play hammers.
Dac Blassingame:
Beat the crap out of each other and you're trying not to react, but then you do react. But then it's... Even on those bad days, I know that it's a 12 hour stretch, it's on the weekend. And if we can make it through that, the next days is start a new and their personalities they're not holding onto the baggage of yesterday. So I know that we'll get incredible moments and the tough ones are worth it. They're absolutely worth it. And I think it's just toughening setting me up for when things really get interesting because things are going to get really interesting.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
What would you tell a guy who was in the same position that you were in not wanting kids and feeling at that zero kids stage, what advice would you give that person?
Dac Blassingame:
Explore the why. Find out where it's really coming from. I can say the same thing that any other normal parent would say, which is the day your kids are born, your life changes so dramatically in such a positive way, but just like telling a newcomer or someone that's not sober yet, hey, just try this thing I know it's going to be tough, but it's the best thing that's ever going to happen to you. That is how I feel about children. It's put it be in such a... You see it I'm not blowing smoke. I absolutely love being father.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. Much more than I thought you would. I mean I thought you would love it, but I didn't.
Dac Blassingame:
Yesterday was father's day and for your mother's day you chose to step away for a moment. Well now but you had family in town and you wanted to-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
No, I do. I want time to myself, it's true. You're right. Weird things that I want surround.
Dac Blassingame:
But I want to spend, whether it's me making up for time that I missed and the first couple of years I always want to be with them.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
You've had plenty of times where you could golf or do other things and between the two of us, you absolutely take advantage of fewer opportunities to be away from them.
Dac Blassingame:
And that's on purpose.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, it definitely is. So as 16 years and how I'm 13 years of sobriety, obviously our recovery looks a bit different than it did when we got together. Can you talk a bit about what your commitment to your family, what you do to stay sober now as a commitment to your family?
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah. My sorority definitely looks different now than it did when we got together that when it did, when I first started I meet with my sponsor once a week on Sundays and I get up at 5:41 in the morning, I'm out the door. Seven to eight minutes. I order my Starbucks and then I meet with him at 6:15 before our 7 AM meeting.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Right. And then I go to the Saturday meetings. So we switch days. And then how many times a week do you speak with him?
Dac Blassingame:
So it all depends. I try to touch base weekly, things are funky, maybe more, but I've always been an individual that tries to reach out to my network, my sober network, my one sponsee that now is one of my greatest friends and was in my wedding. We talk on a very regular basis. I work with other alcoholics, I just try to stay as connected given my current situation and lifestyle.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And how do you know when you're dry and can you explain to us what dry is?
Dac Blassingame:
So there's no one definition for it. Dry can be not going to as many meetings or just being disconnected from the group or doing your own version of the 12 steps. And the 12 and 12 I just read there's something called two-stepping, which is just the first step and the 12th step. And you're putting those two together and eliminating the higher power element or the working on character defects element or when a wrong comes up admitting when you're at fault, which I don't do. So being dry for me it's just being detached and on the downward slope of something bad potentially happening.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
What are some of the character defects you're working on?
Dac Blassingame:
I don't have any.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Do you need me to come to your sponsor meetings?
Dac Blassingame:
No. You've already done that. I'm not currently working on the specific character defects, I'm trying to be as present as possible in our relationship. I'm trying to be as present as possible in my kids' relationship. If at fault immediately correct that's something that you really have to take to corporate America especially. And there's another useful tool that a lot of people don't have that we have. If something crops up and I feel a little weird about a conversation about an interaction, I don't want that to sit and stew because stuff like that will just fester in my brain and I won't be able to accomplish whatever it is that I'm setting my sights on for that day. So can I give you a specific defect? No, but I'm constantly trying to-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Maybe not being present or being detached.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah. Those aren't specific defects, I'm always working. If everything is derived from the seven deadly sins then-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
What?
Dac Blassingame:
That is where character defects are derived from.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
You're getting biblical?
Dac Blassingame:
Throw downs some JC knowledge out here. Christ my load. I think if everything is derived from those sins, then yeah I'm working on greed, I'm working on a gluttony and trying to find better food solutions envy because I'm constantly envious. I'm working on it all. I just don't have a set regimen.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Let me know if you-
Dac Blassingame:
I don't need your help. You have your own problems that you need to work on.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Let me know if you need help. How do you feel that you support my sobriety? Or that we support each other's sobriety?
Dac Blassingame:
I don't think I support your sobriety as well as I probably could. I think you're going to a different program right now and I tried to be as encouraging as possible, but also you know what to do and if you're in enough pain, I don't want you to get loaded. And there've been moments in our relationship where I've stepped in, but also if you're in enough pain, you're going to do something about it or you're going to go get loaded. And you're smart enough to not go get loaded-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
That's such dude response.
Dac Blassingame:
No, not at all. For me it's the same thing, I only get super busy and active when I'm in enough pain and I've been through crazy moments in my sobriety. When I made it to year five, I should not have stayed sober. America collapsed and I was involved in that industry and I should have gone down the tubes with every other. And I went flat broke. I went from writing so, so high to freaking out if I made a hundred bucks. Just I was at the bottom of the barrel and I had less responsibilities at the time. But still it was awful to go through what my girlfriend at the time and I went through. And when I made it to five years, I stayed as active as possible when I was going through the worst possible time at that point in my life.
Dac Blassingame:
And when I made it to five years, I literally broke down at a meeting my parents were at for some random reason. But I broke down, not in like a tier two coming down. But like blubbering, blubbering, blubbering, blubbering just in shock and feeling thank this omnipotent being just stepped in at my weakest moment and gave me grace and humbled me beyond belief and somehow I was still able to stay sober and I shouldn't have. I absolutely shouldn't have.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Why shouldn't you have?
Dac Blassingame:
Because I'm an alcoholic and with every ounce of anxiety and fear and frustration and anger that I was going through, it was the perfect time to escape. It was the perfect excuse and I did not.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And what do you think you think your connection to the program, the work you did and treatment, all of it combined. What do you think was?
Dac Blassingame:
When I moved to California and I got sober, I didn't understand much. I was 20 I was at the mental capacity for 12 year old.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, neither one of us have had a legal drink.
Dac Blassingame:
And I didn't know much in early sobriety. I didn't understand the steps. I didn't understand God of my own understanding. But the first step made absolute sense to me. If the seas parted, and that is the only thing that I understood is that I am powerless over drugs, I am powerless over alcohol and that my life is unmanageable when I drink or when I use. Therefore I cannot drink and I cannot use. Now over the years I've substituted my addictions with women, with spending too much money on stuff that I didn't need. I've tried to fill the voids many times over, but I've still never picked up a drink.
Dac Blassingame:
And when those other ways have caused me pain, I've known what to do. I just know what to do. And I don't know which sponsor I had that told me this because like, okay, we admit that we're powerless, that our lives are unmanageable. We come to believe that a power greater than ourselves is going to restore us to sanity. And once we make that decision to turn our will and our lives over those first three steps, that's it. You're bought in. And if you're not bought in at that point, there's no point in going through fourth or 12.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I don't agree with that.
Dac Blassingame:
Oh great. I've got more time than you, so I must be more sober than you. I absolutely believe in that. But also alcoholism and our sobriety and your desperation versus my desperation are drastically different.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Totally. Because for me at two years sober, that was when I admitted to my inner most self that I was an alcoholic. So I had already gone through the steps which had helped me stay sober in those two years and I knew that I was powerless and I knew that-
Dac Blassingame:
You don't really think it was grace that kept you sober.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I think it was a combination of things.
Dac Blassingame:
Do you think your actions in those first two years were appropriate of an individual that was maybe going to stay sober and not stay sober?
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
In some ways, yes. I don't think there's a prescribed way to act in sobriety, I think we all at different points in time it's really about whether or not you pick up is so people act really badly in sobriety and really well in sobriety and it's on a continuum. My experience was that going through the steps, even though I wasn't a 100% bought in, bought me time to get to where I needed to be to achieve longer term sobriety. That's my experience.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah. I mean there's no wrong or right way or just... I personally believe that once you take that step, when you go from three to four, then that's it. You're in, you just don't pick up a drink at that point.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. That's totally not. But you know what's cool is it's up to each interpretation and it's worked for you just as well as it's worked for me and I don't see it that way. And that's okay. Which is the cool thing is we don't have to see... We are in the same program, we met in this program and we don't have to see the program the same way. We can completely disagree on how to approach it. But the way that we've each approached it has changed our lives, and has helped us to stay sober a long time. So it doesn't actually matter.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah. I think neither one of us has tried to outsmart the program. Yeah. I guess I don't even know what that means. You can't gain the system I guess is my point. I was told when I came to to AA, see what the winners are doing and mimic what they're doing.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
If you want what the winners have do with the winners do
Dac Blassingame:
And guess what? They weren't going in and out in and out or getting one year and then going back out again in two years and going back out. They had just bought in and succumb to the fact that they are alcoholics to their inner most self and therefore that they cannot drink. So they have to figure out an alternative solution. And those are the steps in the wall.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. I think that's a very simplistic way of looking at it and I think that that works well for certain types of experiences. One of the differences between our journeys has been the craving stopped for you. The term struck sober. I don't know if you're struck sober and I don't really totally know what that means. But the desire to drink went away for you, and it didn't for me. I battled it for a lot, a lot of year. The obsession rather. The obsession went away for you and the obsession did not go away from me for a very long time.
Dac Blassingame:
Well, there have been moments-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
That's not obsession totally.
Dac Blassingame:
But there have been moments in my sobriety where Heineken did a brand new commercial. They restructured their bottle. Jay Z was in their commercial and man, Oh man, did that look like the most enjoyable beer?
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
How long did you think about it?
Dac Blassingame:
I'm still thinking about it. And that was an ad campaign from a decade ago or last. I don't know, six, eight years ago, they changed the laws in the country and now National campaigns can run for liquor. And for most of my youth and formative years I never saw Jack Daniel's commercials.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
It's funny, I didn't even know that. I didn't notice that.
Dac Blassingame:
An now what's her name from that '70s show is doing Jim Beam commercials. And man oh man, does she make Jim Beam look good again? And that's okay. But that's not me obsessing that's just me saying, dammit I wish that in an alternate universe I could participate like everybody else. But guess what? Not everybody else is holding it together. Whether they're alcoholic or not.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, that's for sure. Yeah. The obsession took a really long time for me and I battled with it for a long time. I wouldn't call it an obsession anymore, but it's shifted to other things. And as you mentioned I struggle with other things and have to work on that. And those things become very loud and my alcoholism takes the shape of many things.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah, disease just shifts.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, it just changes into something new. And so I have to be vigilant and be willing. And that's the hardest thing is to be willing. And I think because I've been going to away Overeaters Anonymous and I think with the food stuff, just like a weird relationship with food and the sugar stuff that's my first... I think I've come to see that, that was my first addiction and that's been a very, very painful thing for me to come to, and work on and uncover in a marriage because I've been very ashamed of that.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And that's been really difficult, and you've been really supportive and really honest. And I've given you space to do that, and I think that's been a strength of our marriage, which is that we have some really brutal conversations about things we see and things that are going on and really honest and tough to hear on both ends. I've said some really tough things for you to hear and you've, you said some really tough things for me to hear, but because we have that basis, I hope you know and I think you know that I'm coming from a place of love and wanting to spend my whole life with you.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
And I assume that that's where you're coming from, that we can have like there is that trusted space and I don't think there are very few people on the planet that I've ever been that vulnerable with. And the thing is about me is that it sounds I'm very vulnerable because I'm talking about something. And so people experience me as very vulnerable because I just told you that I was going to Overeaters Anonymous. So like that's in it, but that seems like a very vulnerable thing. But the moments that you and I have seen each other in our darkest moments, those are the real vulnerability that we've had the tools to walk each other through and be support and watch as the addiction changes form.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah. You drew the short straw when it comes to picking a disease that you still have to eat three times a day and [crosstalk 01:08:07].
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Also like the unsexiest program name ever.
Dac Blassingame:
Totally, my compassion for... I was just listening to an interview with a gentleman that was going through a similar situation. He's in LA as well and just something I don't have to deal with, and yet I can have so much compassion for it because it's the one thing that you still have to do every single day if you want to survive. You have to eat, I don't have to drink alcohol or smoke a joint to make it through the day but I do have to get sustenance in my body.
Dac Blassingame:
So I feel for that. I think we're past the point of walking on eggshells with each other. I think that was the greatest gift, not only of sobriety but a therapy is that I don't really care about your feelings and you don't care about my feelings. When we have something that we have to say because it's going to affect our lives on a daily basis. We just have to have the conversation good, bad, whatever. We just have to have the conversation and hopefully we can come from a place of love while we're doing it. But-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
I think it's more that actually I care so deeply for you and vice versa that I'm willing to hurt your feelings. I think that's actually... It's not that I don't care about your feelings.
Dac Blassingame:
I honestly just feel we've developed our own language, we know how to communicate with each other and if something's on our mind we just don't let stuff fester anymore. That's the healthiest thing that could've ever happened to you and I.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah, whatever we're fighting about is exactly what we're fighting about. It's not built up resentments from before. It's-
Dac Blassingame:
Well let's not go that far. I think you still have some built up stuff that you carry.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
You think that? Like what?
Dac Blassingame:
I was on a good run when we first started dating financially and then on a decent run, let's not act I was balling out of control, but then I took some risks and you still hold on to some of the financial insecurity stuff that rightfully so I have to climb out of a certain hole because I drastically changed the outcome of where our lives were going for five or six years. Four or five years.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yeah. So I don't like that that happened, that made me uncomfortable. I was uncomfortable but I'm actually not resentful about it. So it doesn't take up physical space in my being when you remind me of it. I look upon that time as very uncomfortable and I wanted things to be different. But it also forced me to deal with things, it put me in a position where I was willing to apply to grad school because for whatever reason, my response to you losing your job was to take out student loans. See, you helped me dig out through that.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah. Is all me.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Yes, is all you. Yeah. So I think I can not be pleased with some of the decisions or some of the way things have affected our lives without actually holding resentment, without being continuously upset about something because I'm not continuously upset about those decisions. They were very uncomfortable and some of the effects of them are very annoying. But my interactions with you very rarely do I think about those things.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah. We're singing a different song than what was being sung in Q4 of last year, but-
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Well, yeah, I was resentful in Q4, you're right. It was funny though, like I said, I was resentful one day and then the next day I was like, "Okay, there's a bigger plan." Now we come to some peace and then the day after that not so much.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah, and rightfully so.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
You scared the shit out of me. Well, I love you and thank you for coming on the podcast and airing our dirty laundry to people so they know that other people go through whatever it is that they're going through.
Dac Blassingame:
Yeah. I guess if I could part with any message, to anyone that's married, just get divorced as fast possible. The Thing is not what I bought into.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
Oh, it's everything you bought into.
Dac Blassingame:
And I'm happy that you're having success with this and I love you.
Ashley Loeb Blassingame:
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